Episode Transcript
welcome back. Uh, or should I say just welcome really, I guess welcome to anybody just finding us. This is sort of sophisticated, the podcast where we try to talk about sophisticated stuff so we can learn new things. Um. But we only sort of do it 'cause we're not that smart and really, let's cut the crap. We're learning this stuff right along with you every week, aren't we? Absolutely. I think it, what's so neat about this is that you really, most of the time are learning. Hear Yeah. No, but you hear something Yep. That's happening in real life or that just kind of catches your attention and then you spend hours researching to better yourself. Yes. And then in turn you teach me and it's amazing and I appreciate it. Thanks Pete. And how mu, how much do we retain? I retain a lot actually. I mean, we should do, we should. We should test ourselves. Here was like the street cred moment was that everyone was talking about, um, What was the name of the Apple TV show? Chief of what? King? Yeah. Chief of name. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so we're so hooked by the way, like people were talking about it, Uhhuh and I was able to. Feel as if I had something positive to contribute to this conversation. There you go. Rather than just like, oh, I watched it and it was great. But like the history. Yes. And you know, the beauty of that was amazing. I have, so thank you. Have I have an idea? Um, I'm gonna make us a test. Okay. I don't do all on test. It is going to be a 50 question test. Okay. It's gonna have random tidbits from day one. 50 episodes, right? 50 different episodes. And we're gonna see if we can pass the test. Oh, okay. Should we do that? I don't. We all know we're gonna fail, but that's okay. I'll do it just for you. I don't know if it brings you joy, whatever. Um, okay. I have a story. Okay. Because I always have to have a story. Let's go. Right? That's how we always have to start this shit., Do you remember a few weeks ago when um, I ran the Disneyland half marathon? I do. Okay. Um. So anyway, the night before I stayed over at the Disneyland hotel 'cause I knew Aw 'cause you fancy af. Yeah. Okay, okay. Yep. Um, and Luke and I we went to the park and then we were watching the fireworks show. Did you buy season? Like a annual pass? Keep magic key. He has an annual pass. You did not, you just bought a ticket. Yeah. You were insane. Yeah. Okay. So we were watching the fireworks show 'cause the fireworks show is amazing. Um. And I saw this deaf child, like with a family, watching the show mm-hmm. On dad's shoulders and like signing right. And at first I was like, oh my God, that's awesome. Uh, they don't need to hear any of the loud bangs and all of the noise. Like it is obnoxiously loud there, like it is very terribly. And then I was like, wait a sec. First of all, I'm a dick for kind of thinking that, but I realized like the music that they pipe through mm-hmm. Is like part of the experience. Yep. And far as frustrated as I am with hearing the sound from the fireworks, it is a very, like, you hear that in your soul. That's not just in your Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna say just because the kid was deaf doesn't mean he didn't. Right. So he felt it for sure. Totally. So, super long story short, I was like. Hold on a second. I can't be a dick. I have to do an episode on sign language and I wanna learn, so I have to like go research it all back to the beginning of what we were talking about, like I went down a rabbit hole, started learning about sign language, and then oddly enough, you're not gonna believe this, but this was God, uh, international Sign Language Day is September 23rd. I was like, I did not know that. Right. So I have my, you know how we always try to do like the pop culture tie in or like the reference? Yeah. So that relevant, right? Yes. So there we are. So we're doing an EP on the history of sign language today. Sweet. What's our official title? Okay. Official title. Yeah, it's a pun. Are you ready? Oh, I love puns. It's a very punny, signed, sealed, and delivered. A history of death culture. I see what you did there. Yeah, it was a good one. Thank you very much. So that's what I'm here for. People. I don't know if you know this sort of humor, what my girls and I are learning sign language. Of course you are. 'cause you do everything We do. We learn everything. We use lingo. Okay. If we were, you know, a cool podcast, we get paid for that little placement there. Wow. Let's go. Um, this episode is brought to you by lingo. Do, do, do. Uh, but what's amazing about learning sign language is the girls were. Doing like a review with each other. And we were in Panera. Yeah. And then this lady just started staring at them. Yeah. And I was like, oh, that's kind of weird. Like they're not really bothering anyone. They're just sitting at the table signing, learning to sign. Right. And then she got our attention And full on starts starting to us a full conversation. Oh my God. No. Yeah. Oh, that. But that's like, if, like, you're in like another country and somebody starts talking, can you in a whole nother language. Yeah. It was, I mean, it was incredible. Yes. That of course, the one person at Panera, right. Happened to be there uhhuh while the girls were practicing sign language. Okay. So what did you do? But she felt like so seen. She was so excited. Yeah. Um, and so then she realized that we obviously weren't very fluent and she went slower and we were, we got there, we were able to kind of communicate and then she, um, was teaching the girls a little bit on perfecting, you know, their signs. It was just this beautiful moment. And then. We went to a birthday party. When was this, by the way? Uh, this was what, maybe a couple months ago. Oh, okay. All right. Now this is fantastically relevant and then I love this probably like three weeks ago. Mm-hmm. We went to a birthday party and one of the kids' cousins was there and she's deaf, and the found out all the other kids kind of just like left her alone. And I told the girls, I'm like, you can go talk to her. They tried. Mm-hmm. And they did. And she was like, at first very confused, like, who were these other little children? Right. Who were hearing signing to me. Right. Um, but then they got her to play and to like be included. Got her to join in the games though, I mean, of course it's hard just like watching fireworks Hard. Did she join in all the other reindeer games? All the other reindeers. That is fantastic. Wow. Look at that. So as you know, it's something that I think we don't. Think about a lot, right? Yes. Of other non-hearing people in the world. When I did this episode, you will absolutely see strewn throughout this whole thing when I like was researching, it's about being seen. It's, it's not sign language, it's, it's a culture. Mm-hmm. It's the, yeah. It's. It's one thing to sign, it's another thing to embrace and understand their identity and their culture. Yeah. That it's like, it's a whole, it was like, I was mind blowing. I was like, really? I felt this big again. Yeah. It's a whole nother level that always when you learn something Yes. That we don't, your girls are amazing. You're a good mom. I think it's awesome that you do stuff like this and, um, you only get one chance to do stuff and like, I think I like as a dad, I think I did pretty good. Don't get me wrong. Yeah. Like I give myself high marks. Absolutely. But like, you're awesome. Oh, well thanks Jo. Job well done. Thanks for sure. Alright, so are you ready to take us down the rabbit hole? Let's go. I'm ready. I mean, I think we kind of already hinted at it down the, you know what we should do what we should do. Rabbit down the rabbit hole. Yes. On Alice Wonderland. Oh, that'd be good. One. It's good. Isn't that just so weird? Like that's like, that's and everyday language. Everybody says it takes us down the rabbit hole. Went down the rabbit hole. Everybody knows. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. What rabbit hole are we going down today? Uh, we are going down, um, signed, sealed, and delivered a history of a deaf culture. Uh, I think we did kind of already answer how learning about sign language makes us more cultured and curious, but. I'm sure you have that, uh, answer all nice with a little bow on it. Uh, do you wanna enlighten us? I do. I do. I do because I chat gt it if that's okay, because that was hard and I didn't wanna screw it up or anything. Are we ready? Let's go. So officially chat, GPT says, learning about sign language makes you more cultured because it opens a window into an entire community. With its own rich history, art, and traditions that most hearing people overlook. Like we were just talking about it challenges the idea that communication is only sound broadening your understanding of human connection, plus knowing even a little a SL shows respect for a global culture that's been shaping language and activism for centuries. Just like you in Panera. Right? Yeah. It shows a respect for Yeah, absolutely. Yes. It makes people feel seen. It does, absolutely. Alright. Did you also, Chad, CTO, word of the day. I, I don't cha you, I don't, I know. Two words a day. I know. Do a hard time. I Why do you do that to me? I have, because it gets your panties in a bunch. Ready to, so quickly. I'm ready to go. I don't want let's, I don't want people knowing I'm wearing panties. Okay. Okay. It's very, go ahead. That's a thing that I told you one time and you've used it against me. Okay. What is this great word that you picked? Okay. Are we ready? Yes. The great word is Ous ous. This come from the definition of a maleficent or not definition from the derivative offic. We've had one like that before. I forgot what it was though. Now I wanna know. It wasn't malicious ous. Ous MOUs means sweet sounding, smooth and pleasant to hear. Often used to describe voices, music, or speech. Okay, so for example, the singer's, MOUs voice made the entire audience fall silent in awe. I feel like you picked this word just for jokes. I did not, but Okay. Okay. From the Latin, Mel, do you know what Mel is? Latin Mel honey. Okay, go figure. I didn't that. Yeah. And flu to flow. Flu to flow. Literally meaning flowing with honey. Oh my God. You are so ous. Uh, it entered English in the 15th century, keeping its poetic sense of something beautifully smooth and pleasing. Interesting. Okay. Ous. Ous. It sounds like syphilis snuff. Gus. No, it sounds like syphilis. Alright anyways. Oh no. Not even close. Syphilis. Syphilis is not very different. Very different. Smooth and pleasing. Okay, well we're just gonna move on from syphilis. Yeah. Uh, although, so no more. But there might no more, no more talk about syphilis. Okay. But I'm thinking like flowing with honey. No more syphilis. Syphilis. There's pus. We, we are starting now. We're done. All done. Okay. All done. Alright. Okay, fine. Okay. All right. Let's start with, um, how did sign language start? How did sign language start? I mean, clearly I think we all can make assumptions, but there is a history there. There is. Okay., Fun fact, it didn't start like 40 years ago when people think it did. It goes like really far. Do you really think it started only 40 years ago? I think so, and I, quite frankly, I don't even think that's a fun fact. Okay. So I think that's just me sort of saying like, Hey, it started a lot longer ago than people think. We just didn't care enough about to notice it. Like really? I'm gonna timeline it like I always do. Is that good? Yeah. Is that the easiest way to start? Okay, so it all started in drum roll please. Ancient Greece, like everything does that. Thank you very much. It does. Uh, so like fourth or fifth century BC like long time ago. This is, this is, this is Play-Doh. Okay. You remember Play-Doh? Yeah. It's like OG time, Playdoh, Aristotle, Socrates, everything goes back to these guys, right? Toga guy. Philosophy, beard. They had their hand in everything. I swear to God they did. It's like every episode we do something on unlike one of these guys, don't we? It started to feel like I only you go back to just believing in their educational system, but anyways, moving on. Wow. Okay. So Plato writes something called Aras, which was basically like arguing over like whether words mean anything by their very nature or if we all just agreed to call like a chair. A chair, because why not? It sounded good. And that if we never agreed to all this in the first place, and never given the gift of speech, we'd probably talk with our hands anyway. Which, let's be honest, is kind of obvious. But the reason I'm bringing this up is because Aras, is probably the earliest written evidence we have to the idea that gestures could have actually been a full on language, not just like me flipping someone off while I'm driving. You get a idea? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. You're saying he is way ahead of his time. Totally. And wasn't necessarily just for non hearing people. No. Correct. Mundo. Alright, so now we're jumping ahead like I always do, but like. I'm jumping far ahead, like a thousand years or so. Okay. Because nothing really happened between there. Fast forward. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Medieval Europe. And I guess that was a time where like, you know, they had a lot of monks and religious people. I mean, they had a lot of people fighting too and stuff like that. But like monks and religious people were like really catching on in medieval Europe. I don't know why. Okay. But they were right. Okay. And they start taking vows of silence. Thanks to some dude named St. Benedict. Okay. Who was, who was St. Benedict and why? Vows of silence. Yeah. I don't know. They wanted to follow St. Benedict. So, St. Benedict, I had to look this up. That was another rabbit hole. Thank you very much. Was a Christian monk who basically started monasteries, like just in general, the idea of a monastery. Okay. Like where monks live and pray and stuff. Right. So he founded something called the Benedictine Order because he was cool like that. And so they, well, he wanted something with his name, duh. Right. I need to, do, I need to do something like that. Anyway, somewhere in the sixth century ad he wrote something called The Rule of St. Benedict. Which was a guide for how monks should try to live their lives. So the whole idea was that it focused on prayer work, study, and how to balance like all those things together. And one really important part of that whole concept was learning how to be silent. So the idea was that the monks should refrain from speech, especially just like chatting to chat, which I would die if I had to do that, right? 'Cause the idea was silence helped create a space for God's voice. I mean, you would die. I, no, I totally would die. I know that. Okay. I try to avoid that because I'm afraid God's gonna smite me. Right. This, it's a problem. I, I'm happy we know this. High anxiety, I got a problem. I don't know what's going on. Okay. We'll talk about that later on the therapy couch. Okay. So like. They were allowed to talk when they absolutely had to, but for the most part, they tried to observe this rule so they could be closer to God and meditate. So does this make sense so far? Yeah. But when does sign language come into this? Okay. All right, well think about this, so. They still had to figure out how to cook and clean and stuff. Sure. They had to like have a bathroom schedule. They had to like, they had shit to do, literally. Right. So they started using all these hand gestures to communicate throughout the day. Okay. That makes sense. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they ended up building a pretty legit system of all these hand signals that literally included hundreds and hundreds of hand positions in gestures and stuff. think about it, you probably had, you know, something like. Please pass the wine. They're monks and they're drunks. So, you know, please pass. The wine is a very important one for monks, right? Something like of course the people can't see me on the pocket, but I You get, please pass the wine. This is probably what you did in Panera, right? Okay. Or with A bunch of dudes bunking together. I'm sure there was one for like, excuse me, I farted. Right, of course you would. That that was legit. Right. Why would you need to say anything? If partner know you farted, it's fine. They needed to survive. No, they couldn't talk or anything. They had to like excuse themselves. They could melt the fart. Peter, that's not enough. You have to be polite and say, excuse me. No. Yes, you do that. Okay. Well, excuse me, is much different. I farted. You can't say, excuse me. So they had to think of a sign for, excuse me. That's my point. Okay, listen. The bottom line is, this was actually considered the first sign language system ever. Though they didn't call it sign language. They didn't have a name for it, but that was it. That's where it started. Okay. Got it. So we started Medieval Europe. Yes. Right. Go monks. How many of Them were there? Uh, nine. Okay. I have no idea. There were monks everywhere, right? I know, but that's what I'm trying to figure out. Like, it started obviously at one place. Yes. Did it then like filtrate through the whole monk system. Oh, we're gonna get there. Okay. Oh, we're gonna get there. But like, let's be honest, immediately what was there to do? You were either a monk or you were a jouster guy. Okay. Like you were a warrior or a monk, right? And wore a lot of armor and tried to you know, lay the ladies, or you couldn't do that. And you were a monk. Okay. And you were a monk. That's basically what happened. That's how they decided. That was all of Medieval Europe history. Lesson over. Thank you. That was a sort of sophisticated version of medieval Europe. Anyway, enough of medieval Europe. We're switching gears people. Okay, so around the same time. But halfway across the Atlantic, I dunno if it's halfway across the Atlantic, wouldn't, wouldn't it just be across the Atlantic? I think it would be across the Atlantic. Okay. Here in North America, indigenous nations were developing their own sign systems separate from the monks. Okay. You gotta remember all these different tribes didn't speak the same language in. Meka. Well, it wasn't meka then you get the idea. Uh, so in order for them to trade in stuff and share info, also probably not kill each other. Who are we kidding? Right. 'cause they all, like there were some tribes that liked each other and some tribes didn't like each other. They ended up building a similar but different system of hand signals to communicate and connect. I mean, that's wild. And if you think about it kind of mind blowing, it really is that between different nations, they were able to communicate and figure it all out. I know. I think it just shows like people are resourceful, man. Because this is life and death back then, right? That's true. Yeah, I know. Absolutely. Indigenous people were ahead of their time too. All these people were ahead of their time. The problem is we're just not ahead of our time. They were all ahead of their time. No, I just think we have AI and we're lazy now, but we are. That's besides the point. Yes. We got lazier. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. so if I'm tracking, we got Play-Doh, we got play. Hey, I got an idea, gestures or language people. Then the monks in medieval Europe started inventing a whole hand vocabulary system that was amongst the monks. And then over in America. Did you just say amongst the monks? That was excellent. Um, monks, that was, that was hysterical. You, you're not even laughing at your own joke. Did you not mean that as a joke? Is that, is that a joke? That was excellent amongst the monks. That was kind of funny. That was alliteration. It was funny. Oh yeah. Yay me. Yeah, right. Totally. I think the monks came up with a few like. Original OG hand gestures, if you know what I mean. A bunch of dudes living together with no women. Stop. Stop it. Can you imagine some of the actual hand gestures that they had to use? Focus. Focus with their right hand. Remember when we talked earlier today about your a maybe twice a day every day. We go for, here we go. Here we go. Okay. Sorry. Okay. Okay. Continue to sum for me please. So we're amongst the monk, just like totally derailed in medieval Europe. And then. We would've moved over to America. Well, it wasn't America, but Yes. Yes. With all the indigenous people. Correct. And they created their own communication Yes. Through hand gestures. Yes. In order to communicate with other tribes. Yes, absolutely. And then now we're basically saying sign language isn't really a modern invention. It is not. It's been around for a really long time. And it's partly in a lot of our DNA. It's absolutely in our DNA, but we just don't use it every day. No. 'cause we don't have to. Right, right. So I think we could give o that it's probably as old as spoken language. It's, it's a tale As old as time is what it is. Song without a rhyme. Okay. So what's next? Right. Are you ready? Here we go. Um, the birth of formal sign language. Formal. Formal. Okay. Okay. Meaning it's psych. Stamp of approval from someone. Um, yeah, like they developed it into a real system that they could, that it's a, it was a process that they could teach. But I also wanna know, there were non-hearing people before this formalization. There were, and they were communicating. Right. Just like just like we explained, yeah. Okay. In medieval Europe, in, in America, like they were doing it, it's just somebody had to put a stamp of approval that, I don't wanna say a stamp of approval. When we got more educated, we decided to formalize it. That's it. Okay. So like we were able to write it down, we were able to then share that forward with more people. Interesting. That that's all it is. Right? Okay. It's just, it's as we became more industrialized, we were able to feel like it was appropriated, but Okay. Continue. I think you're right. Okay. Um, but we gotta go all the way back to Europe. To do this okay. Like We're back in Europe, but like what? Not mid up anymore. Yeah, we're, we're in France actually. We're in the 18th century now. Okay. This is when it gets fast forward lots. Okay. I don't want you to yell at me anymore, but this is when it gets formal, we're formalizing. Okay, good. Good. Even though you just, that's said it was appropriate. That's fine. Okay. So we meet some dude named abby Dpe, he was a Catholic priest who would like go to people's houses and stuff. To visit them and I don't know, give them communion and like Okay. And Reconciliation, all of the important sacraments that matter a lot to us Catholics. Okay. Okay. And when he was visiting some underprivileged people in Paris, he met two deaf sisters who had been taught by their mom to communicate through hand gestures. Okay. And Lappe was so interested on how they were communicating and everything that he decides to go learn what they were communicating to each other. And eventually then. Formalize it, And start teaching it to other people. And this is like the mid 17 hundreds. Yeah, mid 17 hundreds. Right, right. Yeah, yeah. Like 1750. So to put it in context, okay, so back then, think about it being deaf was like, like you were a leper, right? It sucked, right? Like nobody wanted to be around you. Just like you were talking about at the beginning, like you're the girl at the party that felt like in the corner because he was like, oh, I guess that's normal. Like, we're doing that today. It's 2025, we're doing that, right? Like can you imagine in 1750 L people felt. Literally like lepers. Like you couldn't get a job, you couldn't go to school, you couldn't do anything. And then Lappe comes around and he's like, no, hold on a second guys. This is easy. Like here's how we communicate. And he founded the world's first free public school for deaf students in Paris. Well, that's awesome. Yes, I know. Thank you. Lappe. Then of course, his work laid the foundation for French sign language. Okay. LSF, I don't know how to say all that. Um, which will go on to influence sign languages all over the world. And for that. R Boy. Lappe is now known as the father of the deaf. That's awesome. I actually did not know anything about Lappe. I mean that also then teaches you we're not learning fully all about sign language, but Abby. Abby Lappe. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome to become a saint for it because I hear they're giving that title out now. They are. And no, he was not a saint for it. You need. You need miracles. You need miracles for saints. I mean, well would say it's a miracle to be able to talk to death. Nobody pray him. Nobody. He didn't get his two miracles. What do you want me to say? There's a whole process. I know there's a process that, you told me this. I'd argue he's better than a saint. Okay. He's a legend. That's what I would argue. Legend Lappe. So then what happens? Okay, so, right. So, okay, so this sets off a chain reaction and all these smart people in Europe start realizing like, deaf students weren't uneducable, uneducable, uneducable. I think it's uneducable. I have no idea. Wait, that's weird. Why do they take the T out? If, if it's educate. Okay. What? Wait, it should be uneducable, but I don't think it's uneducable. I, it's uneducable. Is there a sign for Unedible? I, I think you, what's the sign for Unedible? I think you digress. And what's the sign for Un Is this the sign for Unedible? Just for you. I'm just saying that's weird. Why did they take the T out? Really think about that. I'm sure there's some, there's a reason why the English language is funny. English language has a reason for everything. Anyway. All these doctors in professors and people in France finally realize like, thanks to Lappe, that deaf people just sort of spoke, quote unquote a different language. Like, but they actually could figure out how to communicate. It was really that simple. And by the early 18 hundreds, deaf schools were popping up all over the place. Europe, Spain, Italy, over in England, like a bunch of places now. And each one of them sort of developed their own regional sign language system. So in England they had what's called BSL, or in Spain, it's called LSE, like UA ana. And then in France they had what? The LSF, right? So they all had their own, their own system, right. And. I think I knew mostly that not all sign languages, are the same across the board. I didn't that, when I looked that up, I was freaking out. Yeah. Um, but I don't know if I realized that there was that many different ones. Yeah. I think you just mentioned that there was like three other ones and I thought there was only like one or two. Okay. I have a fun fact about that. That's going to blow your mind later. Okay. Okay, then we'll then we'll wait. We'll wait. Absolutely. But your point is like, we have English, and like in France they have French, and in the Netherlands they have Dutch, right? Like, yeah. Yes, it's literally the same thing with, with uh, sign language. Yes, sure. But like even then, I. A lot of our things, like at the root of it, come back to Latin which means that we could in theory get there a little bit. Yeah. Is that the same with all the different sign language variations? I don't know because I don't, I don't know. Like ask your girls, they would know better. Okay. Okay. Remember that fun fact I was telling you about? Yes. Can I just tell you the fun facts now? Please. 'cause I don't wanna wait till the end because I have enough fun facts. Okay. You wanna guess how many different ones there are? I don't know. I just said, I thought there was like three major ones. 300. Oh my gosh. 300. There's 300. Yeah. Wow. Which means there's more. But that would make sense if there's like than one, three different languages per country. Right? I know. That's crazy. I know. Okay. But here's the piece we miss about this whole thing. This is what I was talking about way at the beginning, just like the same way we take pride in all of our different communities, like our religious community, like I'm Catholic, or my professional community, like a manufacturing company, like whatever, right? It's the same thing for deaf communities. It's not just language. We tend to see it like language, but it's a way of life. Yes. So these schools, they weren't just building classrooms. They were building places where deaf people could connect with other people just like them and start sharing stories and a culture and like an identity together. So it's, way bigger than just sign language. Absolutely. It's a whole population of people. It is. That has a cultural identity that we. Don't acknowledge or know about. I did certainly didn't do a good job at acknowledging. Yep. And here we are trying to figure out how to do that and that's why there's paying a little attention International Sign Language Day, and that's why we're trying to do right. Absolutely. You are correct. Okay, so then when did we develop then a SL? Because I would assume that was developed at a different time than when it was in France. Uh, okay. Yes. A little bit later it came along. Right. And actually I thought when I was looking all this up, that it would come from the Native Americans. Okay. Yeah, yeah. The indigenous people, people talked about that. Yeah. But it didn't, it did come from Europe. Oh, okay. So check this out. Sort of, kind of a similar story to like Lepe. So in 18, 17, around the same time that sign language is taking off in Europe now remember, 'cause it started in the 1750s. Yeah. So let's, what is that, 75 years later? I don't know exactly. An American named thomas Hopkins Galludet, who also happened to be a minister from Connecticut, decided he wanted to help a little girl named Alice Cogswell, who of course was deaf. And he'd already figured out that deaf kids in America had basically no way of getting an education. So we're behind over here. Okay. So we jumps on a boat and goes over to Europe to see what he can find out, and he ends up in Paris. 'cause of course, that's what you do in 1817. You land in Europe, you go to Paris, right? There's nowhere else to go. It's Paris and he meets Abby Scard. Who was like the protege of Abby De Lappe. Okay. We were talking about, so like next, next Man Down. Yeah. But more importantly, meets lauren Claire, who was one of Char's original deaf students, already turned into a teacher. Oh wow. So like if Lappe was like the starting, yep. Scard was like student turned teacher, and then he had Claire who was student turn teacher also. So same as you had like. Plato, Aristotle, Socrates. Yeah. It is passed down. Same lineage. Okay, here we go. So Claire and Gaudette start hanging out and basically Claire decides he's gonna move to America with Gaudette, so he has a chance to build schools somewhere like from the ground up and start helping more people who never had access before. So. For a while in Europe, he was like under the tutelage of Scard, but he was like, you know what, I wanna go do this myself. I'm going with you gal Lude. Let's go to America and do it. So, so then Galludet. Galludet took him back, took the him as a teacher, straight to the Americas, brought him back. Right back to America. Okay. Absolutely. Yeah. So together, they founded something called the American School for the Deaf in Hartford, Connecticut. And that is officially where sign language began in America, A SL in whatever it was, Okay. 18, 17, 18 20. Yeah. Somewhere around there. Makes sense. Yeah. Fun. Totally makes sense. Fun. Fun fact. Okay, you ready for fun Fact? Fun fact. Yeah. So a SL wasn't just French sign language, like copy and paste it. Okay. Well, I mean, I guess it couldn't be right. Duh. So when, when Claire started teaching in Hartford, he ended up blending. French sign language that he knew with all the American signs already being used. Oh, interesting. By deaf communities in the United States as he was like learning all about this, including something very interesting called Martha's Vineyard sign language. I don't know if I knew that Martha's Vineyard had their own sign language already developed. Interesting. Why in this little place? Yeah. So. Are you ready for this one? Okay. This might be the, this is real random. This might be the best fun fact of all fun facts. Okay. Okay. So for like 200 years, they already had this check this out. When the English settlers came over, to like settle in the colonies, right? They had this recessive gene come with them. So some folks from Kent, England to be exact settled in Martha's Vineyard, in the mid 16 hundreds that had a mutation in one of their genes called Gjb two. And after living there for 200 years, by the 18 hundreds, the time Claire shows up about one in 25 people on Martha's Vineyard were deaf compared to one in a thousand all around the rest of the United States. Wow. So the coolest part about this whole thing is that since it was there for so long, everyone on the island was signing, already hearing Anne Deaf. Didn't, it didn't matter if they were hearing or deaf because so many people in the community were deaf. So Martha's Vineyard sign language wasn't like special education. That was just daily life. That was just how they were living. So people were like truly bilingual. And deafness was not a disability in this really little town back in the 16 hundreds. So it's like, it's crazy. Right? That's amazing. Right, and I love that. That's interwoven in today's a SL, right? So he takes some of French, some of what folks have been putting together just in communities to survive in America. And this Martha Vineyard, let's call it dialect, puts it all together and makes a SL amazing. Yeah, it's insane. By the time he died, he died in 1869. He had taught thousands of children sign language and is now celebrated as the apostle of the deaf in America. Having personally shaped deaf culture and language forever. Thank you Lauren. Claire, I mean, yes. Amen. Right. I mean, it's amazing that somebody recognized that and brought it in order to have access and ability People are so cool. People wanna do grand, big things. I love it. I love people doing, I do something grand and big, and the only grand big thing I do is leave something in the toilet every morning. I mean, it's terrible. I needed to do something a little more grand than that. Right. And if only everyone in the world had that ambition. Right. Just to leave the world a little bit better than we arrived in it. Okay. Let's work on it. Okay. Okay. So then from there, did it expand like everywhere else? Yeah. No, not exactly. I thought it would've too. No, it didn't. So things like were going just fine for a while until the late 18 hundreds and then this new movement pops up called Oralism. That gained like a lot of traction. Right? Oh, again, do we know what Oralism is? I mean, I think it'd be taken many different ways, so I'm just gonna let you explain it. Okay. Okay, so Oralism is when two people choose to engage in No. Nope, nope. No, no. Okay. Well that could be considered Oralism when I paused and was like we could have multiple definitions. Yes. I knew what you were going. It was awful. I love worse than I expected anyways. Okay. So. I was saying Oralism. Was the term given to the movement to try to ban sign language in school and start to force deaf students to learn to lip read and speak Ugg and fun fact, Alexander Graham Bell. Yep. The inventor of the telephone, Alexander Graham Bell. Mm-hmm. Right. Was one of the biggest advocates at the time. Probably because he wanted more people to use the telephone. Like just wanted sales. Right. But like kind of a dick. That's awful. That's awful. Bell was kind of a dick. But I feel like that's also, if you think about like what indigenous people went through and Right. Having to learn English and oh my god. Right. Like,. I guess we see it in all cultures and identities. We do, but we just try to get, we see everywhere. Think about the missions, right? The all the, like we shoved all the indigenous people in the missions, all the Catholic like Uhhuh. Don't get me started. Okay. Sorry. Okay. So then I guess for like almost a century, Amanda sign language education was suppressed and deaf students couldn't find any place to learn except back at that school for the deaf in Hartford, Connecticut. Like it was really a big deal. That's awful. I, for like a hundred years, that century I know is a long time but that makes sense then as to why people think that it only started about 40 years ago or whatever. Because Which is like, When you think about it, It is so sad. 'cause like normally when we go through history, it's like it builds, it builds, it builds, it builds. It's like gets better. It gets awesome. Yeah. Yeah. In this case, literally it went backwards for a hundred years. I mean, but there are cases of that and different cultures. No, you are right. Okay. This is one prominent case that sucks. Yes. Okay. So it takes to like somewhere around the 1950s. That's where like we got our shit together again. Some man named William Stokey, a professional linguist, decided to study a SL. First of all, who doesn't love the last name? Stokey. Dude, that's so stokey. Let's go. Okay. Sorry. So anyway, he was able to prove that it was a full on natural language on its own. Yeah. With its own grammar structure and everything. Not just English spelled out in your hands. He argued a SL wasn't just English light. Okay. It was a complete language syntax. Humor, slang culture. Remember the beginning culture. Yeah. Right. And that research was a turning point that sparked the deaf renaissance. I love it. Yes. Here we are. And then by the 1970s, we're in my lifetime now. Deaf culture started growing again. And that's where people started really picking up on it. Again, organizations like the National Association of the Deaf, which had been formed in response to the whole Oralism movement, was starting to make big strides for the deaf as far as education, accessibility, and just overall like general recognition of a SL. That's amazing. And good job. National Association of the Deaf, because they stood up to, they did what would be considered oppression, right? Of the death community. So. Someone's making progress. Someone is, and another fun fact. I'm full of fun facts. You are. A lot of fun facts today. Gotta keep it light. And also a major turning point too, came at Galludet University in 1988. Um, 'cause they had a name of a university, of course. Yes. The old Tom Galludet. Right. Okay. So something called the deaf President Now protest. Have you heard of this thing? No. Never. Yeah. Okay. Me neither. So check this out. So, quick history. So, Galludet University, Washington C was founded in 1864. Okay.. For deaf and hard of hearing students about 15 years after Galludet died. Like Okay. In tribute to him. Of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But here's where it gets like super interesting. So despite being a deaf centered university, every president they ever had for 120 years from whatever, 1864 to 1988. Okay. Was a non deaf president. Like someone who could hear. I don't know what that like, I don't know if non deaf or hearing was a hearing president, A hearing president, yeah. And students were pissed. So in March of 1988, the board of trustees announced another non deaf hearing president. Elizabeth Zinzer and I guess ignored, two totally qualified deaf candidates and that was it. Like it was on, so the students launched something called deaf presidents. Now it was like a whole movement. They marched on campus, locked the gates, boycotted all their classes. This is in my lifetime. Yeah. I'm freaking 16 years old when this is going on. Took over the administration building and they weren't moving until the university appointed a deaf president and added a deaf majority to the board. So it only took him about a week. One week, thanks to national media coverage at the time. Right. I, I don't even remember this, I was making out with my girlfriend in high. You know what I was doing? I was getting oralism with my girlfriend in high school. Okay. But anyway, the newly appointed president resigned. That Elizabeth Zinzer. Why, why do you always shake your head at me it's always back to one or two things anyway. It is. It's You are such a boy. Okay. Sorry. I know, but that's my point. I was a boy. Okay. So anyway, Elizabeth Zinzer, she resigns. Good. And the board appointed Irving, king Jordan as Gallaudet's first deaf president. Massive movement for deaf pride it's amazing. And it's like, and people don't even recognize what a big civil rights movement that was. It was and it was, it really was. Like for language and for identity and it just, that's amazing. I liked the way you just looked at that. That's absolutely what it was. That's so weird how like history sort of decides what we call things, but it was, it was a massive civil rights movement. You're right. And then of course now like because of that and more national attention, a SL is now starting to influence pop culture because Have you heard of Switched at Birth? Yeah, we watched it. We watched? Yes. Okay. Right. Movies like Coda, that was Academy Award winner Coda. Right. Influencers on TikTok are bringing a SL to literally millions of people as of 2025. Amanda, a SL is now the third most studied language in the United States after Spanish and French. Didn't know that. Thank you very much. Your daughters are learning it. Very cool. I think it's excellent. It is excellent. I mean, it went from being banned in schools to now being TikTok famous and I guess giving a whole movement. So it is, it is a whole movement. I like it. I like it. Okay, so we're celebrating national sign Language day. Is there anything that goes like special with that day or is it just a day that we're supposed to stop, pause, and ask questions? Reflect, yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I'm gonna correct you 'cause we're sort of sophisticated here. So actually it's not National Sign Language Day. We have two days. So National sign language. Is the American version. That's for a SL. Okay. That's celebrated on April 15th every year. Okay. Okay. And recognizes the anniversary of the American School of the Deaf. That was opened in 1817 in Connecticut. That's what we talked about earlier. Yes. The school that Galette and Claire put together. Okay. International Sign Language Day. Oh, it's international. Yes. International Sign Language Day. That one is celebrated on September 23rd. That's the one that's coming up. That's the whole reason for the episode. And it only started eight years ago. In 2017 by the United Nations and actually Marks the founding of the World Federation of the Deaf. They were the ones that stopped the whole Oralism movement. Back in 1951. So it celebrates everything about deaf culture, worldwide sign language, accessibility, culture, everything. So this is sort of yes. It's a reflect and pause. It's a let's have a moment of meditation to get our shit together and realize what that community means. That they should not be. Marginalized? Should we take a moment and talk about, uh, the World Federation of the Deaf? Because I feel like they did a huge thing for the deaf community. Yeah, good point. 'cause I did sort of go of that quickly, so the World Federation of the Deaf, the WFD That's short for the global nonprofit organization that represents 70 million people now worldwide. It was founded in 1951 in Rome, Italy, to promote human rights for deaf people. Preserving sign language, improving access to education and services,? It's run completely by deaf people. For deaf people. All of its board members are deaf. It has members in 130 countries through national deaf associations. And since the WFD works so closely with United Nations on policies around accessibility, ah, rights, and sign language and recognition, it's the reason we have international sign language day in the first place. So basically it is, it's a massive advocacy group. The best advocacy group, right? Yes. Ever. The deaf community. Yes. That's amazing. Here, we, I didn't even, and the thing is, is like when I start, like okay. Back to sort of sophisticated, the whole premise of what we're doing, right? Yes. I'm at Disneyland. Mm-hmm. Being a douche bag. Mm-hmm. Watching the fireworks, looking over to deaf person and wondering to myself, I wish I was deaf, so I didn't have to hear the fireworks, and I was like, wait a second, I'm a dick and I need to learn about deaf people. Yeah. WTF. And we also learned about oralism, which I also think is cool. I didn't even know that existed. Stop looking at me like that. I hate you. Well, now that you're off your soapbox for a hot second, right? Do you have any more fun facts No, dude. Do you wanna do, are we ready for fun facts? Yeah. Oh, I think we learned, we did our history. We learned all about it. 20 fun facts wasn't enough. There we go. You need more fun facts. All right. Well, if those were the ones that you had, I figured you had some like good ones. Like I always in the back pocket. I always have extra fun facts ready to go? You ready? Yep. Okay. Number one, Marley Matlin. Do you know Marley Matlin? No. No? Mm-hmm. She was on Seinfeld. She was one of his girlfriends for a show. Mm-hmm. That's not even like why she was famous, but I shouldn't even say that. That was so embarrassing that that's how I know Marley Matlin. She was the famous deaf actress who won an Oscar for Children of a Lesser God in 1987. Oh, get this. Awesome. She was only 21 years old when she won, making her not only the first deaf actor to win best actress, but still to this date, the youngest actress. Oh, that's amazing. To ever win. Oh, I love that. Best actress love. I'm surprised you don't know. Yeah, she's, and she went on to a massive, massive famous career. Very cool. Yeah. Yeah. Number two, did you know there's something called a SL Poetry? A SL, poetry? I did not even know that was a thing. Okay. Yes. A SL poetry. So I guess instead of rhymes like, and meter and poetry stuff that I don't even know, like what I'm talking about, right? Haikus, the poets use hand shapes and facial expressions to create their rhythm and their imagery. Oh, oh. Is that also tied with when there are translators for music? Because like the music must signs, there must be, must be, are not necessarily always like the actual word sign, but it's so that way it flows better. Okay. I, so I wanna educated here. I'm gonna say you're absolutely right. I don't know. We gotta look that stuff up. We do. You know what that is? You know what all this is? This is, I believe this is ous. I believe it is sweet flowing. Goodness. I think, I think it's, there we go. Alright. Number three, baseball hand signals. You know, baseball hand signals, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Who doesn't know baseball? Okay. Bet you didn't know they were introduced by a deaf player. Named William. Check out his middle name William Dummy Hoy. They called him William Dummy Hoy. 'cause he was deaf. I guess that's what they could do back in the late 18 hundreds. That's okay. Yeah, so he couldn't hear the umpire, so his teammates started using hand signals to explain things to him and the rest is history now to do all that crazy shit. Right. Yeah, absolutely. There you go. Thank you, William Hoy. We don't need to use his middle name. And finally, deaf people sometimes have what they call a unique sign name. They do. I did know this one. Oh, I did not know this one. Yeah. Oh. So yeah, so I thought, like I always wondered about this. So instead of finger spelling their name, every time you get a nickname in sign form. Yeah. Often based on your personality or like physical feature or something you do, right? Yeah. Do you know what yours is? What? No, that my middle finger? No. Yes it is. You're so dumb. What? Just a child. Did you just call me a dummy? I did. And not because it's your middle name. That is so terrible. You're just awful. That's all I got. I only had a few fun facts because I used 'em all earlier. It's 15. Okay. I know it is. But Amanda, you've known me now like, like for 15 years. Like what do you want me to say? Like what do you expect? Like you're the same Peter you were then. Right? We're not changing anything. Like I'm doing my best to get sophisticated here, but I can't get out. Like some of the shit just stuck. We're trying. We're just trying. Yes. It's stuck in here. Oh, all right. Fine. Okay, so are you gonna go ahead and give us the big takeaways for the episode so that way anybody who has uh, listened or just want the CliffNotes version can? Yes. Uh, so that way when it is September 23rd, they'll be able to lay down some knowledge. All right, let's do some call outs. I got some pretty cool ones, so no excuses. Here we go. First, let's learn a few signs. Just like your daughters, like they already know. Thank you. Probably nice to meet you. They probably know 10 more than that. I don't know any of these, right? They probably know way more than that. ASLs pretty easy to pick up in little bits, not like all at one time. Don't freak out, right? YouTube has tons of stuff for self-teaching. what do your daughters use? Lingo. Lingo, or just follow deaf creators on Instagram? Yeah. Or TikTok. I don't know, but like lingo, okay. Second, go check out a deaf storyteller or poet that we were just like talking about performing That be awesome ESL, right? It's mind blowing to watch language come alive visually or like, like the music thing that you were talking about. I think it would give us like a better appreciation for how expressive sign language really is. Like for sure. It's not just your hands, it's actually your, in everything, your body. I a lot. It's a lot. I think. I feel like I would be excellent at signing, I have to learn signing. I do a lot of physical things, can your daughter start teaching me please? Sure. Okay. And then just remember these bullet points to feel, well, I guess sort of sophisticated, right? So here we go. Sign language is ancient people. Ancient. Ancient, like old af. It didn't start in classrooms 50 years ago. Humans have been using gestures to communicate for thousands of years. Plato even wrote about it. Native Nations had their own sign systems way before European settlers even arrived in America. Two a SL is not English in your hands. It's its own full language with grammar, slang, humor, and culture behind it. I think that's like the one thing that, like, if you could take away anything, like that's what to take away. And remember, it's closer to French sign language than British sign language because of its French roots. Just like the reason why we drive on the, right side of the road instead the left side of the road. Look at that. Thank you, Napoleon. Look at you just adding all that in. Just kidding. Three. Martha's Vineyard was once bilingual in the 18 hundreds. So many people there were deaf that everyone signed hearing people and deaf people. Deafness was not a disability there. It was part of normal life. So, cool. Go. Martha's Vineyard, uh, for deaf activism shaped history. The deaf presidents now protest in 1988 at Galludet University was a major civil rights movement that changed representation for deaf people worldwide. And thank God it did. And finally, deaf culture still thrives today. This isn't just about accessibility. It's a vibrant global culture with its own art, storytelling, humor, and even fashion. Learning about sign language isn't just a nice skill. It's an invitation into a world that sees and communicates in a completely unique way. Let's get on it. People be better. Get sort of sophisticated. And there you have it. Dear listeners, A deep dive into a language that doesn't need sound to speak. Volumes from ancient gestures carved into history to a SL poetry lighting up. TikTok sign language has always been more than a communication tool. It's a culture identity and connection. If we did our job today, hopefully you're walking away feeling a little more sophisticated with a new respect for how deaf culture has shaped art education and activism. Whether it's monks, silently debating over bread or activists shutting down a university to demand a representation. The story of sign language is a story of resilience and creativity. So take a moment to learn a sign or two, support deaf creators and remember that communication has always been bigger than sound. If you like this episode, subscribe. Leave us a review and share it with someone who needs to understand that the world isn't all about them. Until next time, stay curious, stay connected, and keep listening even when no one's speaking.
