Episode Transcript
[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome back to Sort of Sophisticated, the podcast where we try to mix sort of some education with some curiosity, maybe a little chaos, where we think we're bringing subjects that matter and make us more cultured to life. And sometimes that works, and sometimes it goes over like a lead balloon. So here we are.
[00:00:25] Speaker B: I think, for one, it works really well.
[00:00:27] Speaker A: Well, thank you.
[00:00:28] Speaker B: I learned something every week.
[00:00:29] Speaker A: And that voice that you hear on our microph everyone is none other than my new co host, Sandra. How you doing today, Sandra? No.
[00:00:39] Speaker B: Wow. Tell me how you really feel.
[00:00:41] Speaker A: Right?
[00:00:41] Speaker B: You're so feisty.
[00:00:43] Speaker A: I wouldn't want. Sandra, you're so feisty. I don't know why I came up with that. Anyway, whatever. That's Amanda, people. Here we are. We're back at it. We're doing this. We're on episode 89 for those of you playing along. I can't believe we've done this this long. That's insane. But here we are.
[00:00:56] Speaker B: Here we are.
[00:00:57] Speaker A: Do it.
[00:00:57] Speaker B: Technically, it's like season three.
[00:00:59] Speaker A: It already is. Yeah, like, that just happened.
[00:01:01] Speaker B: I know.
[00:01:03] Speaker A: I'm getting old. Let's not do seasons anymore because it just reminds me of how old I am, and I don't want to do that.
[00:01:07] Speaker B: No, but I like, categorizes better.
[00:01:08] Speaker A: Skip that. No.
Okay, fine. Whatever.
Let's go.
[00:01:12] Speaker B: Okay, fine. So what are we talking about today?
[00:01:14] Speaker A: You really want to know?
[00:01:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:01:15] Speaker A: Okay. Today we are going to talk about music. Because I love music. You know that music? Yes. Music for the people. I think that was like a Madonna song. I don't know. Yeah. Come to yes.
[00:01:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:01:29] Speaker A: Yeah. Look at that. You remember that's my 90s girl right there. Okay. We're talking about the Grammys. That's we're doing. Because the Grammys are coming up.
[00:01:35] Speaker B: Oh, I see that.
[00:01:36] Speaker A: We're doing the Grammys because we did one on the Oscars a year ago or something. I think we did unveiling the Oscars. So I was like, okay, do you.
[00:01:42] Speaker B: Want to know my shame right now?
[00:01:43] Speaker A: What?
[00:01:44] Speaker B: So, like, we had talked about the Grammys.
[00:01:46] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:01:47] Speaker B: And I didn't realize it was for music.
[00:01:50] Speaker A: Oh, my God. Really?
[00:01:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:01:51] Speaker A: Wow. So this is my point at the beginning when I was like, we try to pretend we're educated.
[00:01:55] Speaker B: I do know, because I know what the.
[00:01:56] Speaker A: Did you know what the Tonys are?
[00:01:57] Speaker B: Well, I do. That's for Broadway.
[00:02:00] Speaker A: Okay. You know the Oscars.
[00:02:01] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. But like, when you said the Grammys, for some reason in my head, I thought it was like another offshoot of, like, the Oscars but in my head, I also know that it's like the trophy. It has a megaphone, xylophone. What is it?
[00:02:14] Speaker A: We're recording. We're going to go with gramophone.
[00:02:16] Speaker B: Oh, it's a gramophone.
[00:02:16] Speaker A: Which is where the Grammys.
[00:02:22] Speaker B: Sorry.
[00:02:22] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. That's what it all.
[00:02:23] Speaker B: Hey, all fun fact, right? Grammys from the gramophone.
[00:02:27] Speaker A: Gramophone. Another fun fact. Super fun fact. Already this early. The gramophone, whatever. Like the actual award itself, I guess, faces backwards. Yeah, I don't know what that means. I was looking up like a gramophone faces a certain way, but I guess the award itself faces the other way. And the idea is that it's, like, supposed to be looking back at history, like back in time. Yeah, I don't know. That was a little fun fact. I found.
Whatever. So, official title is who picks the Winners? A sort of sophisticated guide to the Grammys.
[00:02:55] Speaker B: I love it.
[00:02:55] Speaker A: Yeah. I'm here for it. We'll get it.
[00:02:57] Speaker B: I have no idea who picks the winners.
[00:02:58] Speaker A: No.
[00:02:58] Speaker B: Oh, well, because the Oscars, it's like, you know, the Academy. Who's the Academy? I mean, it's the same thing.
[00:03:04] Speaker A: We have something called the Recording Academy, apparently.
[00:03:07] Speaker B: Interesting.
[00:03:08] Speaker A: Here's what we're going to do today. We're just. We'll do some history, right? But, like, whatever. Then we're just going to chat because I didn't, like, come prepped with, like, all this, like, who won which award, when? And all that bullshit. Like, I didn't do any of that. So we're just going to like, oh, well, that's fine. We'll do history and then we'll sort of just chat it up.
[00:03:21] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:03:22] Speaker A: Is that fair?
[00:03:22] Speaker B: Sounds good.
[00:03:22] Speaker A: And you can ask me a bunch of questions, and I might know some answers and I might not. And we might be chatgpting a lot of this shit, people.
[00:03:28] Speaker B: Let's go. Yeah, but I do have one question.
[00:03:30] Speaker A: What? Oh, my God, no.
[00:03:31] Speaker B: Already.
[00:03:32] Speaker A: The question I'm already dreading.
[00:03:33] Speaker B: Yeah, go. But how does learning about the Grammys make us more cultured, Peter?
[00:03:36] Speaker A: Because it's music. Because it's music.
Music is culture.
[00:03:39] Speaker B: I don't even know what it is.
[00:03:40] Speaker A: Music is culture. Can we admit? Can we admit? No, just. Let's start with that. So maybe it's. Maybe this is my whole, like, vibe and problem because it's synonymous with me, culture and music. Because everything we did, we did jazz.
[00:03:52] Speaker B: That's true.
[00:03:52] Speaker A: Right. We did Intro to Oper, classical music.
So I just look at music as getting culture.
[00:03:59] Speaker B: Every type of music has Its own culture.
[00:04:01] Speaker A: Corrected.
[00:04:01] Speaker B: Right. Which is, like, an easy way to get to the culture.
[00:04:03] Speaker A: That's my point.
[00:04:04] Speaker B: But, like, why about the Grammys? Just because it exemplifies the best of the best, supposedly. Or.
[00:04:09] Speaker A: That's a tough one.
[00:04:11] Speaker B: Or is it because more on the cultural side of. I should probably know what the Grammys are, because I'm sure there are tons of people who tune into the Grammys, and it is a cultural phenomenon to be a part of.
[00:04:21] Speaker A: Ish. So I'll say that. Yes. I'll give you that. Yes, yes, yes. But I would also say, like, you know, we always talk about patterns. Like, a lot of times, like, history repeats itself, that whole thing. Like, I would say anytime we're going to talk about a historical institution like the Grammys or the Grand Ole Opry or the. Or the Oscars or whatever, there's patterns and there's pattern recognition and there's, like, learning about why it was created and what it's there for and all that kind. So, yes, like, all the things.
But I'm just gonna say music, because I like music.
[00:04:46] Speaker B: That's gonna make us very cultured. Here we go.
[00:04:48] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:04:48] Speaker B: All right. Word of the week.
[00:04:49] Speaker A: Word of the week. Are you ready?
[00:04:50] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:04:51] Speaker A: Word of the week. I know. It's all rebranded. Word of the week. Here we go. Word of the week is vituperate, with a v. Vituperate.
[00:04:58] Speaker B: Vituperate.
[00:04:59] Speaker A: Vituperate.
[00:05:01] Speaker B: Does anything have to do with vibrate?
[00:05:03] Speaker A: Vibrate.
[00:05:04] Speaker B: Gyrate.
[00:05:05] Speaker A: Gyrate. Oh, what was that word that you were so good? What was it? Stridulation. You were so good at that one. Oh, my God. No.
Vituperate is a verb that means to speak sharply, like, with anger or scorn. Yeah, like anger or scorn. Like, hardcore. Like, I would vituperate my children. Like something. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Comes from the Latin vitium. Vitium, fault, defect, or vice. And parare. Parare. Yeah. To prepare or produce. So basically bring fault to the surface. Vituperate. Like, vehemently, though. Yeah. Like, it's hardcore. It's like a word that we don't use anymore.
[00:05:41] Speaker B: Vituperate.
[00:05:41] Speaker A: Vituperate. The only thing I could think of is, like, I vituperate my children. I mean, that sounds terrible, but, like.
[00:05:46] Speaker B: Seriously, unless I tell people, don't vituperate.
[00:05:49] Speaker A: Yeah, right. You could say that to me. I don't know. Every five minutes on this podcast. Let's go. Okay, but two breaks. This is it.
[00:05:54] Speaker B: Okay, here we are.
[00:05:55] Speaker A: Work it in. Okay.
[00:05:56] Speaker B: We're going to work it in. But now I think it's history time. So when did the Grammys even start? And better question, why did they start?
[00:06:04] Speaker A: Oh my God. Four score and seven years ago. No, not that long ago.
[00:06:10] Speaker B: What?
[00:06:12] Speaker A: So guess.
[00:06:13] Speaker B: 70S.
[00:06:13] Speaker A: So, okay. No, so interesting. So it was 1959, but like, I thought it was like way before that. I thought it was like 100 years old already.
[00:06:19] Speaker B: Well, no, but I mean like the Oscars, they didn't start that long ago.
[00:06:23] Speaker A: I don't know, like older, like older. 1959. I was just surprised because that's only like 60 or 65 years ago. That was, that was kind of surprising. So. Yeah. So why they started? Yeah. Okay.
[00:06:33] Speaker B: And besides that, people were like, oh, I want to get recognition for being the best.
[00:06:37] Speaker A: No, Elvis Presley.
[00:06:38] Speaker B: Elvis Presley all starts with Elvis.
[00:06:41] Speaker A: Now I'm baiting you because I know you're probably like, oh my God. Of course it started with Elvis because he was awesome and he had to win awards. No, opposite. Opposite effect. So here's what happened. So it's 1959 or whatever. Rock and roll is taking over, right? Elvis Presley, who was it? Oh my God. Buddy Holly?
[00:06:56] Speaker B: All the OGs.
[00:06:57] Speaker A: Yes. Right, right. Billy Haley and the Comets. Right. These guys are all there. So here's what's going on, basically.
But the establishment, quote, unquote, the establishment was pissed because it was chaos. Because like, you know, teen girls are like going crazy, having fun. Oh my God. Rock and roll. And corrupting the youth. Yes. And so they were like, this is bullshit. We have to do something. Because they were all in a full on panic. So the recording company gets together and they start this award ceremony to basically like give awards to traditional music genres, to like middle finger rock and roll music.
Like, that's, that's how it started to like bring order back to something that they thought, quote, unquote, thought was like getting out of order. Which is total bullshit in itself. Like the whole beginning of it is terrible to begin with. But like that's, that's like why it all started. I know. Sort of wanted.
[00:07:48] Speaker B: I would never have guessed that.
[00:07:50] Speaker A: No, it was kind of crazy. Okay, so if you think about it like Elvis Presley now is like whatever, like classic old time music. Like it's great music, don't get me wrong. But like at that point he was like a full on non conformist, which is crazy.
[00:08:02] Speaker B: You look at some of our music now, right?
[00:08:04] Speaker A: It is insane.
[00:08:04] Speaker B: So like how far we have fallen.
[00:08:06] Speaker A: And it's been and what's even crazier is like I was going through this whole history. Cause I don't have a lot here. I just. 1959 and that's how it was created there, history done, but it took a long ass time before rock and roll. Let's just do rock and roll. Right? So like that's the whole reason it started.
It wasn't until 1979, 20 years later that they adopted rock and roll and allowed it to be in the awards.
[00:08:30] Speaker B: That's crazy.
[00:08:31] Speaker A: And even then.
[00:08:32] Speaker B: So he never won anything?
[00:08:33] Speaker A: No, he never won any.
[00:08:33] Speaker B: No.
[00:08:34] Speaker A: So well, maybe a lifetime achievement of work.
[00:08:36] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:08:37] Speaker A: And then like every subsequent like kind of genre of music had the same problem. So like then hip hop comes out and like that takes another 10 years. So hip hop wasn't even a category till 19 fucking 90. Right. Like and then rap and the same thing. So like they all like that's I think the gramophone thing, the thing I was telling you at the beginning, like the backwards facing thing. I think that's the whole institution. That's the whole like we are going to screw everything forward looking and everything new because that's like not good and we gotta go backwards. Yeah, yeah. It's crazy. And like all the first Grammys when I was looking at like what they were awards for, it wasn't like today like album of the year and best music and all this stuff. It was like for technical competence, like best guitar strumming, like the most traditional, best way of doing right. Or like the best, not just the best voice, but like the best voice inflections as it relates to the way you're supposed to use your voice traditionally. So it was like all about all that tradition stuff. Wow. Yeah, yeah.
[00:09:34] Speaker B: Anyway, I mean, I think it's fascinating looking back.
[00:09:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:36] Speaker B: And how like it's adapted to today with technology and everything else.
[00:09:39] Speaker A: But I mean the same shit still.
[00:09:40] Speaker B: Happens because they don't still have best drummer.
[00:09:43] Speaker A: No, no, no, no, no. But I mean they're still looking backwards. They're never groundbreaking on purpose, even though they're trying to keep up. It is sort of like they're just updating the rules. But the whole idea is it's rule based system. Right. Institutionalized. That's the whole concept.
[00:09:56] Speaker B: Blah blah, blah, how you win, how you qualify, blah blah.
[00:09:59] Speaker A: Yeah, all that shit. Of course.
[00:10:00] Speaker B: So I guess thinking about it through the lens of it was more technical awards, who was the best at this or who was the best at that.
Does this then launch the artist on a different trajectory or like is that how it got so infamous. And why people are always trying to obtain getting a Grammy. I mean, obviously it's an award show, but I feel like there has to be something more to it, right? The value, but you're on the right track.
[00:10:23] Speaker A: That's exactly it. Right? So, like, even if the whole idea was that they were trying to sort of stick with rules and tradition, like, all these artists, once you win the Grammy, I mean, your career is launched, right? Like, you're in crazy land. So the whole concept behind why artists chase it is because they know they're gonna benefit from it. Either, like, their art form's gonna be out there, whether it's fame, whether it's money, whatever it is, whatever they're after. Like, that's the whole point. It's the same as a Grand Ole Opry, right? Like, once you get on the stage, that's the whole point. So Grammy's the same.
You made it. You're official. Yeah, once. Once you hit that. And so, like, whatever. I think back to Adele. I don't know when it was. It was like, 2008, 2009. Don't quote me on it. I don't know when she got famous, but, like, she launched her album Ba Ba, and she went on the Grammys. It was insane. She won best album.
And then. And then it was like, she went from making, like, regular money or, like, good money to, like, bonkers shitload money. I mean, change the full trajectory of the career, and then at that point, too, like, like it or not, and this is sort of the controversial part, get mainstreams the hell out of you. And I think that's why some artists like it, some artists don't. Because I wouldn't know two shits about Adele. I just wouldn't. Because that wasn't, like, who I grew up with, but. But once, sort of, she got famous through the Grammys. Oh, you bet your ass. I listened. Not like I was watching the Grammy Award to listen, but, like, all of.
[00:11:41] Speaker B: A sudden, she was, like, plastered everywhere. Like, I feel like she was.
[00:11:43] Speaker A: And I was like, oh, who is this? And then there was a few songs where I was like, whoa. Like, these are good songs. So, like, it even opened up my musical taste because of that.
[00:11:51] Speaker B: So when an artist reaches, like, the Grammy pinnacle, right, and they get a Grammy, yeah, obviously they're launched into stardom. Their labels are now making tons of money. Like, it's this.
[00:12:04] Speaker A: They're making money. Yes, totally.
[00:12:06] Speaker B: And so then are labels then looking to, like, you know, copy paste what they just did, who just won? And Go after the same sound and look and you know, because that is society.
[00:12:18] Speaker A: You just nailed it. Right.
[00:12:19] Speaker B: Or does the Grammys ever like award creation or creativity or evolution?
[00:12:25] Speaker A: No. Oh, no, no, no, no. So there. So this is like, this is the whole like push, pull. So it's a blessing and a curse. So let me go back before I go forward. So there's like, you sort of different kinds of famous. There's different levels of fame and famous. Right. So there's, it's whatever like the artist.
[00:12:42] Speaker B: Like T. Swift and Beyonce. Right. And then there's.
[00:12:44] Speaker A: Well, but even, but even, I guess, I guess I would say like there's like whatever Internet famous or like, you know, one hit wonder famous and that kind of famous.
Then I would say there's like Grammy famous, which is T. Swift and J. Lo and all that. And they're sort of fit in what I call the Grammy box. Right. And that's what you're talking about. This labels and the repetition.
[00:13:02] Speaker B: Whenever they're looking for unique, it immediately goes platinum and immediately becomes a Grammy.
[00:13:06] Speaker A: Or whatever because they chose to be part of that machine, which I think is excellent. Awesome. More power to you. But then there's like legend or like iconic fame. Then there's like breaking boundary fame. Like you don't give two shits about the Grammys.
[00:13:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:18] Speaker A: The Beatles or think of like anybody huge like that. Bob Dylan, like, never got a Grammy. I'm not saying he had a Grammy. Sorry. What I'm saying is a Prince is another good one.
[00:13:29] Speaker B: Was not trying to chase the Grammy.
[00:13:30] Speaker A: Correct. And they were really changing music regardless of if you like Prince or Bob Dylan. I don't care. What I'm getting at is it's different kinds of famous. And so I think for the artist, you just gotta make sure you know what you're doing. Right. Like what trap you're falling in. Yes. What's your goal? Right. And in the case of Taylor Swift or Madonna or, you know, Adele or whoever it is, like, the Grammy machine works tremendously well for them. But like, no, the Grammys are not designed for any new breaking boundary anything. Quite the opposite. They. They still to this day, 65 years later, like poo poo. That whole concept and that whole idea. And that's why, like, that's why everybody feels snubbed. Like whenever you watch, whenever there's like a Grammy clip on TikTok or like whatever, Instagram, somebody got snubbed. That's like, bullshit. They didn't, like, they, they didn't have a chance. They didn't have a chance. Right on purpose. Like it's designed for them to not have a chance.
[00:14:21] Speaker B: But then you talk about it and you're just like, ugh, another system of not necessarily corruption, but.
[00:14:27] Speaker A: But no but like you gotta be.
[00:14:29] Speaker B: A part of the club.
[00:14:29] Speaker A: So think of us unsusphisticated right now, right? Like, what am I doing this for? What are you doing this for? Like we're doing for fun. Maybe, maybe you're doing it because you're. You feel bad for me. But like.
[00:14:37] Speaker B: No, I know.
[00:14:38] Speaker A: Like it scratches an itch, right? Like it's right. Like at the end of the day, if we were like chasing fame, we would have to be like changing our whole thing and figuring this whole thing out. And like, well, do these people want to listen this way, that way? So it's interesting because if the artist stays true to what they want to stay true to, then they have one road, but then they have a risk associated with that versus if someone else wants. I don't want to say sell out, but like if that's what they choose to do because that's what they wanted, then their art sort of has to get vanilla. So it reaches the masses.
And that's always the challenge of an artist.
[00:15:11] Speaker B: So you gotta pick.
[00:15:12] Speaker A: And so like you could be mad at the Grammys all you want.
[00:15:14] Speaker B: This is where the term sellout comes in.
[00:15:16] Speaker A: Well, I mean, I don't know if it can be, but you're absolutely right.
[00:15:18] Speaker B: Not probably from this specifically, but I now understand it better as when people are like, no, they're a sellout, right?
[00:15:23] Speaker A: Because there's some artists that are still doing it just for the fans. Like literally making music for the fans. But if you won the Grammy, then you're not, you're making it for now. Like the critics and the machine, your fan base changes. It's just. You can't help it.
[00:15:36] Speaker B: Yeah, right.
[00:15:37] Speaker A: And no shade on any of them. But that's, that's the Grammys. And, and quite frankly, I mean, I don't know if we talked about it with the Oscars, but my instinct is kind of more or less, kind of more or less the same. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:15:47] Speaker B: Well, I agree in the fact that it just seems like a well oiled machine. But at what point in time did it, I mean, cause it's obviously an awards ceremony, but now everything, not everyone, but a lot of people anyways watch the Grammys for the performance, right? For the big over the top spectacles of the artist that are. I don't know if they're always up for a Grammy if they perform. Probably not.
[00:16:11] Speaker A: Sometimes. Sometimes not.
[00:16:12] Speaker B: So when did that start? Was that always a thing?
[00:16:16] Speaker A: I think it was always a thing. It's gotten much bigger. I didn't go down that rabbit hole and figure out if it happened like in 1959 or. But I'm sure it like followed quickly, fast followed. But I think what's the big takeaway about performances in general is a lot of times the performances are more important than the Grammy because think about like.
[00:16:35] Speaker B: We'Re on a world stage.
[00:16:36] Speaker A: We've talked about this. We are like, we're emotional beings. We want storytelling. That's. We did a whole friggin episode on storytelling. We did one on Toasting, I think. Remember we did toasting and keep it short. And like people connect with your emotion, that heart, all that stuff when they're doing a performance, that's what people connect with.
[00:16:53] Speaker B: It sucks you into the Matrix.
[00:16:55] Speaker A: It absolutely does. And so iconic performance, doesn't matter if you win or not. That is what will also, like launch, but. But just like everything else. Blessing and the curse. Because it could go the opposite way and it could be terrible. So six of one, half a dozen. The other question.
I'm going to pull you right now.
[00:17:13] Speaker B: Oh, no.
[00:17:14] Speaker A: I'm going to prove my point right now.
[00:17:15] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:17:15] Speaker A: Are you ready? Who won best artist in 2022?
[00:17:19] Speaker B: Taylor Swift?
[00:17:21] Speaker A: No, I have no idea.
Okay, we just proved this is the point I was going to make. But I remember specifically 2022. Bruno Mars and. Oh my God, what's the guy's name? Anderson Paak. It was unbelievable. They had their 70s outfits. They sang triple seven. It was absolutely ridiculous. I don't know. Silk Sonic. They call themselves Silk Sonic.
[00:17:43] Speaker B: Okay. Yes, I did that.
[00:17:43] Speaker A: It was probably one of the top five performances ever to watch on the Grammys. Right? So I remember that in 2022.
[00:17:52] Speaker B: Right.
[00:17:52] Speaker A: Versus I have no recollection of it. Oh, I also like whatever. 1993. 19. I don't remember. Don't quote me on it. Not at the Grammys. But Milli Vanilli, super famous. They found out they were lip syncing and they like walked off stage. They won best artist and then it ruined their career, which you would argue totally sucks because it's not like they really weren't singing the song. They actually sung the song live. They just. Right. They just lip synced it and.
[00:18:16] Speaker B: But everyone lip syncs it, so it doesn't matter.
[00:18:18] Speaker A: They got screwed. But that's the point of performances. They can absolutely send you elevate you.
[00:18:24] Speaker B: Or take you down Prince.
[00:18:25] Speaker A: If you haven't watched Prince, he did purple rain 2004, question mark. 2003, question mark. And then Beyonce comes out because she was just finished, like, Destiny's Child or whatever it was. I don't know. That was the 90s. I didn't follow Beyonce. Dusty's Child. I didn't know who she was until she sang with Prince. And then I was like, oh, who's this? And I don't super love Beyonce. Don't get me wrong. It's not like a list of her sons, but just like Adele. It was sort of like, oh, who is this person?
Yes. It was a total intro, and it was iconic, and it was amazing. And I don't know, Prince goes down in history with, like, performances.
[00:18:55] Speaker B: Prince does. He just always wins.
[00:18:57] Speaker A: But here's the deal with Prince. He was the antithesis of these awards.
Everything about them he hated. But because he was so revolutionary, like, with what he was trying to do with music, and people didn't understand it. So he was not well liked by the recording academy.
They didn't love it. They didn't. He didn't get. I don't know if he was an actual award. Can you look it up, you and ChatGPT? Because I do want to know if he actually. I'm sure he won a Grammy, but I don't even think he probably accepted it. He probably didn't care.
[00:19:27] Speaker B: He didn't just win one. He won seven over the course of his career.
[00:19:31] Speaker A: Okay. He did all right. Yeah. But I don't think he was, like, super high.
[00:19:33] Speaker B: Seven Grammy Awards, 38 nominations, including best album, Original score written for Motion picture and television special.
[00:19:40] Speaker A: Here's what I remember when I was looking him up. Cause I have a fun fact. So I'm gonna skip to the fun fact and then I'll just take it out later. Yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever. He had the shortest speech of all time in 1999, when he won for Best R and B Vocal Performance.
[00:19:52] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:52] Speaker A: Two words. Albums matter. Walked up, didn't even say thank you. Just said, albums matter, and walked off stage. That's what I was remembering. Like, he was like.
[00:20:01] Speaker B: He was defiant or indifferent.
[00:20:03] Speaker A: Right. Because his whole point was like, I'm not here to impress you. I mean, I'm not here for fucking something. Right? I'm not here for song. I'm here to, like, make music and change lives and culture and. Anyway, that's Princess. We went down the Prince Rabbit. I think we kind of buried the Prince rabbit hole here. I Mean, didn't we?
[00:20:19] Speaker B: I love me some Prince.
[00:20:20] Speaker A: Right.
[00:20:20] Speaker B: Okay, so I think I have a, like, this fixation on what. When you said that the Grammys aren't evolutionary. Like, they're not picking people who are thinking outside the box, et cetera. But then they did pick Prince, so they. Did they not pick anybody who is, you know, that we would pick, to our mind, of being the greatest artist for years and years. And then, like, they backtracked and they were like, oh, just kidding. You stayed long enough. And like, I don't really understand.
[00:20:44] Speaker A: So sort of.
[00:20:44] Speaker B: Yes, sorta. Okay.
[00:20:45] Speaker A: Yeah. They play everything way too safe because they don't wanna make mistakes. Because remember, they're an institution and they have to make sure that everybody, like, appreciates what they're doing and that they don't make any wrong choices. And so they tend to take way too long. So in the case of Prince, I don't know exactly, but my guess is they took way too long.
Think of, like Kendrick Lamar. You know Kendrick Lamar?
[00:21:07] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:21:08] Speaker A: Right. Okay. So Kendrick Lamar's first album, I think, came out in 2010, 2011, something like that. So it took five years of him writing and recording and albums and albums before they recognized him for a Grammy. Right. And you would. You would think, like, well, maybe his songs weren't good enough. He won the Pulitzer Prize two years later. So, like, his songs were good enough. Right. Interesting. I think that's my point of.
Do you know Nas, the rapper? Not. Okay. Do you know how long it took him? 27 years.
[00:21:36] Speaker B: No.
[00:21:36] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:21:37] Speaker B: Really?
[00:21:38] Speaker A: Right. Because they didn't really appreciate hip hop. They didn't really care. They didn't understand. He only recently won. He had a comeback album, like a new album that came and he won, like, five years ago.
[00:21:46] Speaker B: Really?
[00:21:46] Speaker A: Yes. So, like, look, the bottom line is they have to do it that way because the whole concept is they won't have it. We all opinions are like, assholes. Amanda, like, you like your music, I like my music. It's totally different. So, like, they can't. So then shy. Reasonably win. They don't have a choice. They have to do it that way.
[00:22:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:05] Speaker A: And then if they screwed a whole.
[00:22:06] Speaker B: Feels like it's a whole institution. That's not.
[00:22:08] Speaker A: But that's what it is.
[00:22:09] Speaker B: Huh.
[00:22:10] Speaker A: So that's my point. Go all the way back to, like, Taylor Swift and Adele. And I'm not totally not shitting on them, but, like, that's my point of. What are you trying to accomplish?
[00:22:17] Speaker B: Who created the Grammy?
[00:22:20] Speaker A: So it was called who created the Institution. It's called the Recording Academy.
[00:22:25] Speaker B: But, like, was it like a bunch of big labels that came together and I was like, we're gonna do this so they could promote themselves.
[00:22:31] Speaker A: Shit, let's go.
[00:22:32] Speaker B: Oh, is that not. Is that not something?
[00:22:33] Speaker A: Look that up.
[00:22:34] Speaker B: I'm just curious now. Like, is this a big conspiracy theory?
[00:22:37] Speaker A: What? Like, should we just start doing a podcast on conspiracy theory? I mean, maybe, but this is where you always go, peter, I want to know. Conspiracy. Wait a second. We also didn't talk about anybody who died yet. Oh, did anybody die from the Grammys? I don't know.
Somebody die on stage for the Recording Academy? I don't know. It's a lot of things, but is it.
[00:22:56] Speaker B: What do you mean a lot of things? Is it like, the labels?
[00:22:59] Speaker A: I don't know. I don't know. I'm chatgpting it right now. I'm figuring it out.
Some guy named Paul Weston is the.
[00:23:07] Speaker B: Guy who owns the Weston's.
[00:23:09] Speaker A: Weston W e S T O n. Oh, okay. Most credited with the Grammys. A composer, arranger, and conductor. Served as the first president of the Recording Academy. I don't know. And he helped shape the original mission.
[00:23:21] Speaker B: Yeah, I think you asked chat right now.
[00:23:22] Speaker A: There was no. It says right here there is no one single founder in that sense. Record labels, producers and engineers, songwriters and arrangers. That's it. And their concern was, like I said before, popular music was being overshadowed by all these other things, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And wanted the institution to be treated as a serious art form. That's it.
[00:23:41] Speaker B: Interesting.
[00:23:42] Speaker A: Nothing more. That's. What are you gonna do?
[00:23:43] Speaker B: Okay, fine.
[00:23:44] Speaker A: Paul Weston with an O. Paul West Hawn. Paul Weston, not Paul Weston.
But I'm gonna Jedi mind trick you right now.
[00:23:51] Speaker B: Okay, Go.
[00:23:52] Speaker A: I'm gonna go down this crazy psychological.
[00:23:54] Speaker B: Hole for a second. I'm ready.
[00:23:56] Speaker A: Because when you think about it, like when you think about the Grammys and you're all mad at this institution that we're talking about, it really isn't about the music. It's us. Right? Think about it. Think about it. Okay, watch. Check this out. Bear with me. So you get pissed off when your artist doesn't win. That's the whole point. Oh, my God, this person should have won. Oh, my God, that person. That's right. I mean, I don't really give two shits, like, whoever wins, who wins, because we're not into it as much as everybody else. But all that really means is you're looking for validation that what you like, the world likes. That's why you get mad.
[00:24:27] Speaker B: Is that also why people then follow these artists?
[00:24:29] Speaker A: Of course.
[00:24:30] Speaker B: Oh, I should be listening. It's the best of my time.
[00:24:31] Speaker A: So, because we're so ego driven, the whole thing. So back to our whole podcast. Self awareness, the whole thing.
It's any of these awards things. All we're trying to do is look for our view of the world is validated outwardly because we want external validation.
So you can't get mad at the Academy.
[00:24:51] Speaker B: Here's Psych101.
[00:24:52] Speaker A: Right. Thank you very much.
I just you to flip the shit out of that.
I mean, Mike dropped that. Let's go.
[00:25:00] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:25:00] Speaker A: Right?
[00:25:00] Speaker B: All right.
[00:25:01] Speaker A: Anyway, whatever. That's the Grammys. What are you gonna do? It's just all about us and our little stupid insecurities.
[00:25:07] Speaker B: So what you're really saying is, is that it really isn't all about the Grammys. I mean, it is, but, like, the real idea is that the music we love so deeply and personally that we're emotionally tied to it and that sometimes we're maybe a little irrational. And the Grammys are just trying to keep the peace amongst the broader audience of the music world.
[00:25:26] Speaker A: Yes, exactly.
[00:25:27] Speaker B: And we as skeleton humans follow along and fall in line with who the best of the best is. And because we all just want to have connection, we do.
[00:25:37] Speaker A: So all of us who are craving that, that sort of external validation, we watch the Grammys. All of us who don't care, like you said, indie music, we do our own thing. Nobody gives two shits. We don't even know when the Grammys are even gonna be on. So don't blame the Grammys. Watch if you wanna watch and just. I watch because I just wanna appreciate music.
[00:25:54] Speaker B: It kind of comes back to why we do this whole podcast in the first place. Right? It is something that I am not inherently involved in or deep diving in.
[00:26:02] Speaker A: Yeah, me neither.
[00:26:03] Speaker B: Lots of care.
[00:26:04] Speaker A: I probably watch the Grammys every other year.
[00:26:05] Speaker B: It is fascinating to learn something new about something that I actually don't have much opinion or care about.
[00:26:11] Speaker A: So here's our commitment. We have to watch it this year.
[00:26:14] Speaker B: Okay?
[00:26:15] Speaker A: Just. We'll watch this year and we'll. Right. And then we'll sort of like, we'll do best performance. Me and you will just come in here and we'll just be like, which one did we like the most?
[00:26:21] Speaker B: Fine. But can I listen to the rest of your, like, things that I should do or could do and decide which one I want to do?
[00:26:26] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:26:26] Speaker B: Okay, I like that better. But until then, can you give Me some fun facts.
[00:26:30] Speaker A: Oh, I can give you fun facts. Yeah, let's do fun facts first Fun facts.
[00:26:33] Speaker B: I'm ready.
[00:26:33] Speaker A: Fff.
[00:26:35] Speaker B: I don't know if we should do that. Fff.
[00:26:36] Speaker A: Oh, my God. But you know what? I didn't do great. Yes. I didn't vituberate. We didn't vituperate yet because you didn't.
[00:26:42] Speaker B: Say anything that was like venom. Ly aggressive.
[00:26:46] Speaker A: Oh, shit. Okay, well, then I have to get through fun facts and say something aggressive, and then you come at me with vituperate. So we work this in because I don't want to screw this up.
[00:26:54] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:26:54] Speaker A: Okay, fine. First fun fact. I'm gonna start with a little trivia.
[00:26:57] Speaker B: Oh, dear.
[00:26:58] Speaker A: Are you ready for trivia?
[00:26:58] Speaker B: Okay, go.
[00:26:59] Speaker A: This is gonna be great. Who has won the most Grammy awards of all time?
[00:27:04] Speaker B: Taylor Swift.
[00:27:05] Speaker A: Nope.
[00:27:06] Speaker B: Close, close, close.
[00:27:09] Speaker A: Beyonce.
[00:27:09] Speaker B: Oh, see? Okay, 32.
[00:27:12] Speaker A: 32.
[00:27:13] Speaker B: That's a lot. How is t switch out, though?
[00:27:15] Speaker A: I don't even know.
[00:27:15] Speaker B: Let's see.
[00:27:15] Speaker A: Super fun fact. Even though she has the most, she never won album of the year, which basically goes to show you she has a good songs, people. But she's got some duds too.
[00:27:24] Speaker B: Prince would be so disappointed.
[00:27:25] Speaker A: He would?
[00:27:26] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't know all about the album.
[00:27:28] Speaker A: Prince danced with her. He would be. You're right. Want to guess who number two is? No, no.
You don't want to say Taylor Swift.
[00:27:34] Speaker B: I mean, I. I'll tell you this.
[00:27:35] Speaker A: Taylor Swift. No, not T. Swift. I don't even think she's in the top 10.
[00:27:38] Speaker B: What?
[00:27:38] Speaker A: No, I looked this shit up. No, I don't think she was. This guy's name is George or Georg. Georg or George Stoley. Yeah. I don't know how to pronounce this here. We're only sort of sophisticated. He was the leader of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra.
[00:27:51] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:27:52] Speaker A: And so he won for, like, all this classical composing and classical music over the years. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:27:56] Speaker B: I mean, you know what's so fascinating though?
[00:27:58] Speaker A: What?
[00:27:58] Speaker B: Didn't even know that there was, like, a section of that.
[00:28:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
Remember, go back to, like, how it all started. Right? Yeah, There's a ton. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Number two, winning the best new artist is weirdly one of the riskiest Grammy awards you could win. We talked about this.
[00:28:12] Speaker B: Yeah. Because all the pressure's on you.
[00:28:13] Speaker A: Yes. Right. So I guess a lot of winners will peak after that and then spend their careers trying to get out of the box we talked about. But they can't really get out of the box because they have to be defensive now and sort of just do.
[00:28:25] Speaker B: It the way they're told by critiquing them.
Oh, interesting.
[00:28:28] Speaker A: Because it's all about repeating what you had. Yeah. Number three. Want to guess how many Grammy categories there are? I had no idea.
[00:28:35] Speaker B: 56.
[00:28:36] Speaker A: 56. More. 90.
[00:28:39] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:28:40] Speaker A: 90.
[00:28:40] Speaker B: But again, it kind of goes back to how much.
[00:28:42] Speaker A: You don't know why it takes five fucking hours to watch the show.
[00:28:44] Speaker B: I will that, too.
[00:28:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:46] Speaker B: Do they actually, like, show all of it?
[00:28:48] Speaker A: I don't know. Because I don't watch.
[00:28:49] Speaker B: Because, I mean, like, it's interesting, Right?
[00:28:50] Speaker A: This is terrible. I gotta go watch the whole thing. Just to see. No, I can't imagine culture.
[00:28:54] Speaker B: Right? Like, I only go, oh, it's best album, it's best song, it's best. This, it's best. Yeah, like, never even, like, subcategorized it where, like, composers are able to win or scores or fill in the blank.
[00:29:07] Speaker A: I got five crazy ones. You ready?
[00:29:09] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:29:09] Speaker A: Okay. Best Album Notes.
Not Best Album. Best Album Notes? Yeah. A Grammy for writing the tiny essays nobody reads inside of the albums. Best Album Notes? That's a category?
No, Best Recording Package.
[00:29:22] Speaker B: But we don't have albums anymore.
[00:29:24] Speaker A: You win for artwork. Album artwork.
[00:29:27] Speaker B: I mean, that's an artist.
[00:29:28] Speaker A: No, that's a whole other one. Best boxed or special limited edition package. Same as above, but for people who really love cardboard and booklets. What the fuck? Okay. Best engineered album, non classical. Awarded to sound engineers for Sonic Perfection.
[00:29:46] Speaker B: I feel like this is now a stretch.
[00:29:48] Speaker A: Okay, well, I'm telling you what these are. These are super.
[00:29:50] Speaker B: These are the real ones. I understand.
[00:29:52] Speaker A: This one was unbelievable. Best historical album for restoring or compiling old recordings.
Sometimes decades after they were even released.
[00:30:00] Speaker B: And every year there's a new winner.
[00:30:02] Speaker A: Apparently you win for that.
[00:30:03] Speaker B: Yes, because I feel like Michael Jackson should always just win because they, like, reinvented his voice.
[00:30:07] Speaker A: No, but, like, if you and I just started restoring old albums, we could probably win. How many people are up for that?
[00:30:12] Speaker B: There's probably only, like, I found your new career.
[00:30:15] Speaker A: Okay. Anyway, that was a lot of random shit. Okay, number four, here's a weird one. Grammy voters don't vote on everything. Like, each one doesn't vote on everything. They only vote in their own area of expertise.
[00:30:25] Speaker B: Oh, interesting.
[00:30:26] Speaker A: I didn't know this. Which makes.
[00:30:27] Speaker B: How many voters are there?
[00:30:28] Speaker A: You ready for this?
[00:30:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:30:29] Speaker A: 13,000. Wow. 13,000.
[00:30:33] Speaker B: How do you get picked?
[00:30:34] Speaker A: Right? You're part of that recording thing. Okay, whatever. I'm sure it's, like, a certain number of people from each One of those things. But here's the weird thing. Like, they theoretically can vote on everything, but they don't. But, like, think of album.
Album of the year, though. I bet half the people that vote for album of the year don't even. Like, all they're voting for is the album. They like, maybe they don't even listen to the album. The other out, like.
[00:30:53] Speaker B: So what you're telling me is this is all just. It's a bias. I think it's pretty election rigged.
[00:30:59] Speaker A: I think it's pretty wonky. Yeah, yeah, whatever. Okay, next one. I don't even know where we're at. Want to guess the only person to ever send their Grammy back. Like, literally, not just like, I don't want it, I don't want it.
[00:31:09] Speaker B: It's back.
[00:31:09] Speaker A: One person.
[00:31:10] Speaker B: Only one.
[00:31:11] Speaker A: Yep. Who's crazy enough nothing compares to you.
[00:31:16] Speaker B: I know the song.
[00:31:17] Speaker A: Sinead o'. Connor.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. Anti war, anti power, anti institution, anti anti everything.
[00:31:25] Speaker B: And sent it back, said, screw it. Wow. Hey, if you're gonna stick to it, stick to it.
[00:31:29] Speaker A: Do you know her story at all? Do you know?
[00:31:31] Speaker B: Like, I mean, I know name. I don't know much about background.
[00:31:34] Speaker A: I don't know. Terrible home life. Mom abused her, like, physically, terribly. She left to go to some, like, random girls military academy or orphanage. Like, it was. It was terrible. And then they also subsequently abused her. Yeah, she had a shit upbringing. And so, of course everything was about anti establishment, anti Christian, anti Catholic, like, because these people were abusing her. It was terrible. Yeah. Yeah. It's sad story.
[00:32:02] Speaker B: So sad.
[00:32:02] Speaker A: All right. We already did shortest Grammy speech. That was Prince. We talked about that one. Okay. And finally, best one for last, like always. Queen. You know the band Queen?
[00:32:09] Speaker B: I love Queen.
[00:32:10] Speaker A: Never won a single competitive Grammy award.
[00:32:13] Speaker B: What?
[00:32:13] Speaker A: Not for Bohemian Rhapsody, not for any of their albums, not for any performance. Nothing. One of the biggest, most recognizable bands in music history. Amanda went their entire career without Grammy validation.
[00:32:25] Speaker B: No way.
[00:32:25] Speaker A: And they could give two shits. Who cares? It took till 2018. When, of course, that's when the account we were talking about earlier, the Academy's like, oh, okay, we'll give you a lifetime achievement award because we fucked everything up. That's what they do now. They just give lifetime achievement awards when they realize they never even, like, give it to you.
[00:32:39] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:32:40] Speaker A: A few other ones.
[00:32:40] Speaker B: The Grammy hall of Fame.
[00:32:41] Speaker A: Yeah, A few other ones here.
[00:32:42] Speaker B: Fact check. You. That's all that just happened.
[00:32:44] Speaker A: Fact check all you want. I got this shit.
[00:32:45] Speaker B: No way.
[00:32:46] Speaker A: Bob Marley never won one Jimi Hendrix. The who really? Kiss. I mean, people would be like, oh, Kiss.
But like, that's incredible. These are legends. I mean, maybe.
[00:32:57] Speaker B: See, that's why I go back down to my, like, conspiracy. It's all a conspiracy.
[00:33:00] Speaker A: They don't care. These were the anti conformists. They were the ones who didn't care. What are you going to do? There you go. All right, fine. Call to action. Now you want to learn more? Here we go.
[00:33:07] Speaker B: I do, I do.
[00:33:07] Speaker A: All right, so you watch the Grammys all five hours? Yeah, Seriously, that's what you got to do. You could watch the shit on YouTube. Here's what I would do. Don't just watch the new one. Watch some of the iconic performances, right? Get a vibe of what was going on. Pick one from like the night. Like, just pick 1985. Then do like.
[00:33:22] Speaker B: You're watching for two reasons, right? Like two separate reasons. For performances or for who wins the awards.
[00:33:27] Speaker A: But. But, yes, but also this is like.
[00:33:29] Speaker B: How I watch a Super Bowl. The team that I don't really care about. I don't care about the actual game.
[00:33:33] Speaker A: I understand. I'm. I guess I was trying to show you, like. Well, then let's make it interesting. Let's just do that. I think it has more to, like, go back to the patterns thing I was talking about. The idea is to, like, look for, like, in 1985, what was going on. You'll probably realize not a lot of rock and roll bands were winning. In 1995, you realized not a lot of hip hop bands were winning. Like, they were winning stuff, but like, off stage, they weren't even doing it on live TV yet. So my point is, is like all the pattern stuff. That's all I'm saying. And of course, watch like the cool performances, right? Watch Prince, watch Bruno Mars. Watch whoever you want. Like, I don't even care.
Or if you want to be nerdier, I guess. And I don't know if you really want to do this, go watch interviews or documentaries on how the music industry works. Because you were asking me a lot about the recording studios and da, da, da, what they do and how. Because. And I don't mean to love them, but then you get an idea of, like, what the producers are doing, what the engineers are doing, the executive. Like, you get the behind the scenes of how it all comes together. And then I think you have a better appreciation for why they had to build the vanilla structure they built. So that's sort of if you want to nerd out, if you don't want to nerd out. Fine, Just go watch them. If you don't want to do any of this, then just remember these key takeaways to be sorta sophisticated. The Grammys were founded in 1959 and were never meant to crown what's popular. They were designed to legitimize what the industry thinks is important and worth preserving. Right. To look backwards. That's the whole idea. Number two, awards almost always lag behind culture because institutions reward safety and consensus, not disruption in real time.
Number three, a Grammy win can change careers. Like we were talking about credibility and legacy. But a single live performance can matter even more than the trophy. Number four, not all fame is the same. Internet fame, Grammy fame, or iconic famous. All these are different, right? So sort of the artist has to pick which lane to stay true to. We people, we are shooting for iconic fame. I mean, we are a goa. So we just don't. We don't give two shits. I mean, we are going big, going big. And finally, the Grammys don't tell us which music is the best. They tell us what the industry wants to remember. Which means watching them isn't about agreeing with the winners. It's about understanding the moment that we're in.
And that is all I got on the Grammys.
[00:35:36] Speaker B: All right, there you have it. The Grammys in all their glory. Not just a shiny night of trophies and speeches, but a weird, fascinating mirror of how culture decides what matters and when.
[00:35:46] Speaker A: And also, it's a mirror into us, what we like and what we like, and the whole X grant. Thank you very much. Sorry I had to throw that in there.
[00:35:54] Speaker B: Well, we did our job today. You're not walking away with just a list of winners. You're walking away a little smarter and a little more informed. Without being annoying, hopefully. So congratulations. Your sorta sophisticated investigated.
[00:36:06] Speaker A: Yay.
[00:36:07] Speaker B: If this episode made you rethink a win a snub, or that one performance you still remember years later, Leave us a review and tell us which Grammy moment lives rent free in your brain. We want to know what you're thinking. Until next time, stay curious, stay opinionated, and remember, awards don't define greatness, but they do tell you what a moment was trying to remember.
[00:36:27] Speaker A: Oh, that's so thoughtful.
[00:36:29] Speaker B: So cute.
[00:36:30] Speaker A: Nice ending.
Bye.
