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Welcome back to sort of sophisticated, and I mean, Amanda, if people are listening, they already know what we do. So do we have to like do this all the time? No. But if they're not listening, if this is the first time they listened, I mean, I guess then we do have to introduce Sure. So we should, we should really keep introducing. Okay. Okay, fine. So, for those of you who are new to this, then we try to take something that's either culturally or historically important. Wildly entertaining. Yes. Right. We connect it, you can't see my hands, but I'm connecting my fingers to something relevant in pop culture today and make it sort of like, we're sneakily trying to teach you something and you don't even know you needed to learn the thing that we're trying to teach you. Sounds about right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, sweet. Well, so that's us at sort of sophisticated and that lovely voice you hear is my co-host, Amanda. Oh, hello? Hello, Amanda. Hi. How are you doing? I am well. How are you? I'm doing well. How was your trip? Oh my trip. My trip? Yes. My trip where my buddy Rod packed me in one small little carry on suitcase. I know it was glorious. Everything. I still, I never got a picture of it though. I wanted it worked. Remember I told you I wanted a picture? I'm sorry. And I will go home. I will repack. Okay, thanks. I will take a picture and I'll send it to you and pretend like I just left. Okay. Um, it was glorious. We did all the things we were supposed to do. We, touched down in Athens. We saw the Parthenon, we did a tour of the Acropolis. It was crowded, it was hot. Af Oh my God. What was our word of the day? Mushy and, uh, religionist last week. Yeah, that's what, that's what it was. Oh my God. Interesting. Yeah, it was brutal. Um, ano, Santorini, all the islands. Did you have lots of gelato? Lots of gelato. Lots of gelato. Oh, Amanda, what? I met someone. You did? I did. Who'd you meet? Yes, she is amazing. Like a someone, someone Just kidding. I can't even, fuck, I can't even do this without like. I tried. No, I was like, oh my God. But it was super fun. And after this, 'cause I don't wanna waste all the time. Yeah. Uh, we will go through picks. It will be glorious. Okay. You can see all the excellent places we visited. I'm here for it. I, I walked in the um, the footsteps of St. Paul. We saw where the Virgin Mary lived before she died. Oh yeah. Her last years before she died, we went to Ephesus in Turkey. Amazing. It was glorious. And um, now I am ready to go on another trip. So it's, yeah. You are a world traveler now. Iceland. Here we come people Iceland. Well, because I did the whole Iceland thing. I know. Remember. So I think it's Iceland next. I want in on that. It's Iceland or New Zealand. Iceland is like half booked already. No, but I'm gonna to New Zealand September. Oh, sorry. So you, you should just come. Okay. My God, I can't go. That's too early. You can't, that's early. It's literally like August 30th. Right? Okay. I'll just, September 5th. Okay. I'll get a flight in the next two weeks. Thanks. Okay. I'll book it for you. No big deal. Whatever. Yeah. Book this Dano. How fun would that be oh my God. I hate you get, get on the Amanda train of travel. Okay. I Forgot where we left off. So what are we talking about today? So today. We're not talking about anything that has to do with travel or with Greece. Well, that's disappointing. I know. It really is. Today we are talking about, wait. I like to officially title it. The official title is, it's Not You, it's the System, A Beginner's Guide to Sociology. I think I love it. I know. I don't know. It's kind of nerdy, so. Okay. Kind of schooly a little sister episode of the one we did about psychology. You remember? Psychology? Okay. Okay. Okay. Yes. But this one's more about the collective us right? Sociology than, than psychology, which is like, you know, one us one in our own brain, you know, up there upstairs. Okay. So you wanna know why I picked this? Or do you even care? Do you even care why I pick this stuff? Or do you just like go to club? I mean, I know you always have a good reason, so I just trust I trust here. Here it is. Can I tell you it? Okay. All right. So I was having a moment on the cruise. Okay. Figuring out why I pretend to like, do things for the sake of keeping other people happy. And then I started thinking like, shit, am I the only one who does this? So I figured it was time to do an episode on sociology. Okay. So I get to the bottom of this 'cause I really don't know if I'm the only person who does it. I mean, maybe you are, but is there like a whole story behind this? Oh, there's totally a story behind it. And maybe I am the only one I know. This is my problem. This is why I had to do this study and go down this rabbit hole. Okay, so I'm on the cruise, right? Yeah. And it was this comedy show that I wanted to go watch. Okay. And I'm a loser and I went all by myself. Not a loser. You're doing things on your own. I'm proud of you. Like I did other stuff. I was at you. Right, right. But this guy up there is not that funny. Right. And of course I'm judging him 'cause I think I'm hysterical and you know, so I'm like, whatever. But everybody in the bar was laughing and having a good time 'cause they're like drunk and everything. I'm surprised you weren't also laughing. Right. So, but that's my point. So I started laughing along with everybody because you felt obligated. Thank you very much. So that's where it started. Yeah. Right. But then it snowballed. You got into it, so No, no, no, no. Not at all. He was done and he wasn't even that good. But then the next thing that happened was like the cruise director or the person, I don't know, like what do you call the person who gets up after whatever, people that work on the cruise, right? So they get up and they say, uh, okay, just for those of you dining at like 6:00 PM that will be in 15 minutes. So if you want to get up and get ready to get to your seating arrangements or whatever, and like everybody in the bar clapped like, why do you clap after that? I don't understand why people clap. They didn't say anything that was collapsable. Like, why are you applauding? It's cause there's, they're getting off the stage. But it wasn't the comedian, it was the cruise director person who just came up on stage and said it at the end. So it's like we're, we're like, we're dumb. Um, so my point of all this is, I had to go down this rabbit hole, start figuring out what the people are the way they are. Like why do I do that? And then I started thinking, well, everybody's doing that, not just me. Because you like joined in as well. Yes. And so my whole idea behind sociology was born. Okay. There. Okay, here we are. I like it. so we're learning about sociology. So is our word of the day something along the lines of sociology or is it like totally from left field? No, you know me, I always make sure that they always connect so wonderfully. Well, no, of course it's gonna be from left field. That's what we do. Okay. You know, we had a listener. Oh, we did. Who dmd me? No way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was pretty cool. Okay. Yeah. Shout out to listener. Joe Bob Frieder. Our word of the day today is over tomorrow. Over tomorrow. Like over tomorrow. Like tomorrow's over tomorrow. Okay. Yep. It's kind of really, you're on the right track. Yes. It's pretty easy. Over tomorrow means it's an actual word. Yes. Over tomorrow's an actual word. Okay. It means the day after tomorrow. Stop it. That's what it means. I thought you were bullshitting. No, I'm not. That's what it means. It comes from the old English offer. Morgan offer meaning over or beyond, and Morgan meaning mourning. Okay. So literally over mourning. Or the day after tomorrow. So like, it's like Friday Uhhuh. Yeah, like Fri, this Friday is over tomorrow. So instead of saying what are you doing Friday? The sophisticated way of saying that would be, what are you doing over tomorrow? Hey Peter, do you have plans over tomorrow? No, Amanda, I don't, I really want you to use this in like your everyday life. All right, we're gonna start to, yeah, this is what we're gonna do. Okay. That's a good one. All right. We'll figure it out. We'll, what's gonna stick it in there somewhere. All right. We got, we got's go. We over tomorrow, Uhhuh, uh, and we have sociology. We do. So I guess we should dive in. We should, but you know what? I history. Don't think we should dive into sociology till over tomorrow. What do you think? Let's put this whole thing on. Let's put this whole thing on hold. Alright. Are you gonna give us like a brief history of sociology, how it came about history? Yes. Let's do that. Let's do definition first. I, all I know is I took like, so 1 0 1, so, but that was about it. That was it. Yep. Thank you very much. Uh, you're closer to it than I am because it's true. You are younger. I'm, um, but yeah, that's all I did. What was it? Like a core class or whatever? Yeah, part of the core curriculum. Core to ticket know homie, like gen ed. Your general education unit, is that what you call it? I think we called it core classes. I don't know. Wow. I don't know. I don't remember. You're dated and you're dated. Can I give the definition of sociology? Thank you. Yes, please. Sociology, Amanda is the study of how people interact in groups and how social structures, norms, and institutions shape our behavior and our relationships. Not to be confused with psychology people, which is a scientific study of the mind and behavior, focusing on how individuals think, feel, and act. Got it. Got it. Psychology is an individual, sociology is a group. Yes, but think of sociology, like decoding patterns and trying to make sense of those patterns and like way less therapy and getting on the couch and all that kind of stuff. So does the history of sociology go back as far as psychology or No? Um, believe it or not, it goes back even farther. So sociology was around before psychology, so sort of. Sort of. Yeah. So, because that's how we do. Okay. That's what we do here. Fine. Right. Okay. So check this out. So if you remember from our psychology episode, 'cause I know Amanda, you have all of those committed to memory and you listen to them while you're going to sleep. I do, yes. Um, psychology started with a dude named Wilhelm Want, if you remember, he was the father of psychology. And William James, the father of American psychology somewhere. Yes. You've, I remember that. Okay. Around, I don't know, 1880. 1890. Okay. But sociology began 50 years before that in 1838 by a Frenchman named August. Who envisioned this concept of sociology as a science of society that could help uncover the laws, quote unquote, that govern human behavior. So, oh, interesting. Okay. Yeah. So technically you could say sociology has like an earlier formal definition, like 1838 versus whatever I just said, 1880 or something. But we all know psychology goes back truly all the way back to like ancient Greece. Oh, like philosophically philosophical. Right, right, right, right. So, so I guess like formal definition, sociology, but. Psychology, probably older. Make sense? That's the sort of It does, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Fair. Um, so if Wilhelm is the father of psychology, then this Auguste guy is then maybe considered the father of sociology. Like, did he start it or, you are so sophisticated. That's it. Yes. Oh, okay. You're so good. Comp is considered the father of sociology. But then after he coined the term, it was really Carl Marx who helped sort of put sociology on the map, like during the 1850s. Oh, and the whole industrial revolution thing. Yeah. Okay. So he is the one who started analyzing how European society was shaped by class and how economics played into the whole bigger picture. And he started arguing that capitalism by its very nature, creates inequality. And subsequently Amanda conflict, because capitalism always creates conflict between the nobles, the ruling class people and the working class, or like the peasant people. Is this how Marxism came about? It is, huh? We're on our way. Okay, on our way to, okay. So then toward the end of the 18 hundreds, Emil Durkheim drove it home, baby. So he was the one that actually turned sociology into a formal academic discipline and made us take it in school. Right? So he started putting in like all the structure, in this standard way, like how to study sociology. And then right around the turn of the century, you had a German sociologist come along named Max Weber, who basically piled on Mark's theory about class and added that hard work and discipline somehow matter in all this. So you should feel guilty if you're not being productive. Thank you, max Weber. Is there like Weber, because I can get on board with the last, last part. I know. You know what we should do Weber. 'cause that's probably your thing, right? I know, totally. So he was the one who coined the term iron cage. I dunno if you've ever heard of Iron Cage. Yeah. The feeling where you're stuck in a system that you helped build, but can't escape it. Thank you. Welcome to my life. I feel like that's, yeah. Uhhuh. Okay. So that's. Thank you. Max Weber. Look up Weber. I have no idea if that's a thing. So, so basically these Germans made us feel bad about our work ethic. Leave it to the German Germans. Is that kind of it? Okay? Yes. Thank you very much. Totally. Okay. Lochness and iron cages. No one. Do we have to? No one do. We had to go to war with these guys. Right? I mean, it's crazy. No, I'm part German. I know. I, okay. You're digging on my people. I'm not, okay. I need a break from you already. I need to pause. Can we just do this over tomorrow? Like I need I need a break. You're so dumb. I know. I'm a little too much. Okay. So where were we? Somewhere around the turn of the century, I think. Okay. So now the United States decides, let's just get involved. 'cause that's how the United States rolls. So 1892 to be exact, that's when we launched the first Sociology department in America, Amanda. Okay. Out here in Merca at the University of Chicago. 1892. 1892. University of Chicago. Okay, here we go. So fast forward to 1920s, 1930s. You got Jay Gatsby throwing parties everywhere, right? You remember the whole Yep, yep, yep, yep. Throwback to them, right? That's where we're at. Sociology becomes a lot more, um, you would say empirical as we start studying real life social situations to get data and make like serious advancements. So up till that point, it was all theoretical. Nobody was really doing the real life shit. So we started focusing on the observations of urban life, poverty, race relations, religion, and meanwhile in Europe. The shit was hitting the fan now because of Hitler and fascism and everything. Right. Because now we're in the 1930s, so they sort of, its like a big snowball. Yeah. They sort of start just events and classism and all that shit's going on. So the United States is moving sociology forward and Europe sort of in pause pattern. You with me? Yeah. Yes. All right, so I'm fast forwarding again. Okay. Prepare to fast forward. Fast forward, sir. Okay. Okay. So now we're in the 1950s, 1960s post World War ii. Sociology goes bonkers. Something called functionalism. Do you remember learning about functionalism? I don't know if I did. I do remember learning a little. Do you functionalism? Do I don't if I do? Yes, that totally took over. Uh, okay. Inspired by Durkheim. Mind you. Oh, okay. So functionalism is the idea that every part of society think like schools, families, laws, like everything, right? They all exist for a reason and work together mostly to keep things running smoothly. Like parts of a big, well-oiled machine like our car, right? And all these new sociologists are getting all involved and doing all this research and writing all these books, but just when they think they have it all figured out. Wham. Martin Luther King, the civil rights Movement. Followed by a little feminism. Thank you. Okay. Then you had the anti-war protests for Vietnam and all. There's a lot of movements happening. Yes. Right. This is the sixties and seventies. All these sociologists who thought they had everything figured out were like, wait a second. What the fuck just happened? And it all blew up in their faces again, because they didn't have the structure figured out the way they thought they did. But is it like we are humans? Yes. And of human nature. And so I feel like sometimes when you think that you figure out, oh X, Y, Z is always X, Y, z. It's not true because of humans. It evolves. Okay. But we just did this whole thing on classical music, like it was the Baroque and then it was a classical period, then a romantic period. Then the contemporary model, like it changes and then people are like, what? It's still called classical music 500 years later. Yeah, but it's totally, completely different. Same thing. Sociology. Just I think what happens, so Darwin was right? Yes. That's it. Let's go back. God, look at you. That was perfect. Yes. So the whole idea is like we think we have, we figure out the ology. Pick theology. I don't even care what it is. Yeah. Insert name here. We study it and we think we have it all figured out and then we're like, uh oh. Oh shit. If we're really gonna study it, then we have to change and broaden and, and, and this amoeba like thing starts to develop and pulsate and move and it's not all in one big giant circle. Yeah. And that's exactly what goes on. I mean, sociology's the same way. It just keeps expanding and keeps growing. So then, what is it today? So today is totally woke, dude. What are we talking about? Oh, okay. We're studying everything. Race, gender, sexuality, TikTok culture. They're studying TikTok culture for sociology. I have a fun fact about that later. Oh, um, everything's included. It's not just a study of society, I would say anymore. Now it's more of the study of. How society feels and moves and changes, like you're saying, like in real time. Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So now if you and I went back to take a sociology class, Amanda, we would be like, what the hell is going on? We should do that. We should. We should. And we would be, go to the community college. Let just take one. Let's take one We like we would be laughed at in the back of the room. Probably like these old, oh my God, that was funny. I'm going back to school to be a sociologist. I'm doing it. I think I'm gonna, okay. No longer historian. Sociology. That's it. Here we go. Sociologist just changed my mind. Today, you wanna go back to school for everything? I got one life. You pick got one life. You do, you do. Have you figured out? We all do. All do. I'm a bit bipolar. I mean, you know, it's out there and a DH, adhd. It's fine. All of those things. So let's get you've been focused. Okay. Focus me. We got the history down. Yes, And we are gonna move forward I think we should talk about how sociology actually shows up in real life, because we were just talking how it just kind of is now all of a cluster, um, and is evolving. So why don't we start with like some social norms and roles. Maybe kind of like baseline it here for everyone. And not that we again, can put everyone in a box, but you know, just kind of like where we start, right? I would like to put everyone in a box sometimes. Sometimes I'm not gonna lie. But then of course we'd have no listeners. That's true. Well then on the flip side of the coin then, then you have to talk about like unwritten rules. Give us some examples. Can you do that? That's a lot of stuff. I love the way you said baseline it. 'cause that's, I think, the best and easiest thing for me. So all the other stuff you just asked me, which was like 12 questions in a row that my brain can't remember, I think I'm gonna struggle with let's baseline, but I'm the baseline I, I can do the social norms part. Okay. Okay. Okay. Let that, let's go. Let's go. Okay, so here are a few examples for context. Let's start with something simple. Uh, elevator behavior. Elevator behavior. Okay. You're familiar with elevator? No. Like first in, first out? No. Like last in, first out. No, like, don't fart in the elevator. What are you talking about? So all of those things? Yes. Oh, okay. So yes, yes, yes. But not right. So I was just gonna say, you walk in, turn around and face forward. But I like all of yours. Right. But this point is perfect 'cause you just made it for me. Nobody told you like you couldn't do all those things. You just learned not to do them. You just knew not to. There's not a sign on the elevator before you get in that says, don't fart first in, first out. Make sure you always look forward. Nobody's doing that stuff right? I mean, sure. Yes, but except me because I'm the one who does look backwards and just stare. But I'm sure your parents, somebody passed it down, right? It's like, and you're right, it's still a social norm. I'm trying make social norm an example of social norm and you just totally made my point for me. Thank you very much. Okay, so then how about on the job? We have ones on the job. Think gender, think age, right? For gender. Okay. Like women in leadership especially I deal with this all the time. Women who speak directly and confidently, people will label them as bossy behind the scenes. Oh, she's so bossy. Right. Well, I feel like that's definitely more for women, right? It's bullshit. Right? Yeah. I think it totally, A man could do the exact same thing. I, in my role, you do it, I'm considered but is expected of you. I'm right. I'm commanding. Yeah. I'm authoritative. Right. It's total bullshit. And that's shit that women have to deal with, yeah. Same behavior, different reactions. Well, thanks for acknowledging. Appreciate that. Absolutely. And then for age, say like a 22-year-old intern, do a lot of intern stuff at work. Um, they have a new, cool idea sitting in a meeting. A lot of people will smile politely, they'll be like, oh my God, that, that's a great idea. And literally dismiss that person, right? If someone who's been in the job for like 15 years does the same exact thing, steals the idea, or just says it differently, they're like, oh my God, you're a visionary. Great idea. Let's go for it. Implement this idea. Let's pilot this new process. It's bullshit. So we're assigning value, based on who says stuff, not what's being said. That sucks. That's the, but that's been like historically the case, correct? I that's absolutely, but, but that's the whole point. So are we evolving from that, do you think? We're trying to, but if we're trying to baseline the whole idea of social norms and I'm trying to get people's brain to think how does this appear? In society today, so you know that it's looking for the tells. Uh, that's all we're doing. Okay. We're just looking for the, that's what I thought you meant when you were like, Hey, social. That's great actually. Great, great. Okay. Okay. I love it. Okay. Okay, so we got social norms of basically how to enter an elevator. Yes. Gender. Totally random. Right? Age. Age. Okay. Parenting. You wanna do parenting? Let's do parenting. That's, that's a good one. Dad's get away with everything, so it pisses me off. So, I hated it when my kids were growing up. My friends would call me, they'd be like, dude, you wanna go out or whatever. I would be like, oh, I'm taking care of my kids. They'd be like, oh, you're babysitting. I'd be like, I'm babysitting what the fuck are you talking about? I'm watching, I'm raising, raising my children today. That's what I'm doing. But if Gabby was at home, nobody would say she Right. Nobody would say she's babysitting. Like, it was so frustrating for me. I, ugh. Oh, I have respect for you. Yeah. That would, that one drove me absolutely crazy. Um, you wanna do race? Let's do race. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Not that I know anything about it, 'cause you're right, I'm totally white and entitled. But many people of color, I work with black professionals, I am sure they feel pressure to fit into a white dominated culture. Right? Think how they talk, how they dress, how they wear their hair, my instinct and I, I, I should ask them because I'm sort of going off the deep end here, but my instinct is they probably have to wake up in the morning and be like, how do I figure out how to professionalize myself into this white dominated culture? Which is total bullshit because I don't wake up in the morning, and I see that at our conferences all the time. Yeah. I don't, I don't wake up and go, oh, how do I fit into this black dominated culture? Right. I never think that way. So it is behind the scenes brewing with people for sure. It sucks. Um, and I guess the last one, how much money you had, like economics growing up, you'll get put in a category. They might not say anything out loud, but they absolutely will decide how much value you bring. And it Takes your whole life to change that. 'cause people with more money feel way more entitled to speak up about things than people who don't have money. Basically, I think if we just like brass tack it, you're basically saying if you ever have walked into a room or have felt like you had to act a certain way, then that's a social norm in action already. In action. Yes. And like the invisible stuff that we don't see, we're all expected to know, but it also shows kind of where you are socioeconomically, you know, how you were raised culturally, all of those things. You know what's crazy? What is all the rules that you just talked about? Like how many of them we never actually choose. Right. It just, they happen to us, whether it's our gender or income or race. Like you were just born into that. Oh, absolutely. It's not as if Oh, totally. You decided somewhere along the line to not fit into these social norms. No. Very rarely can. Like, can you change all of that? You literally are born into it. And then once you start to notice it all, the whole idea is let's level set, baseline it, get people to know like how they show up to the world and then we can start to figure out like how to adjust and how to play off of those cards, so to speak. Right. And, and I think part of the challenge is getting people to recognize and identify it, but also not be defensive over it. Bingo. But I mean, I don't know. This is getting into some like really big stuff. like we're now in the unbalanced of systems and who decides who gets screwed over. That's right. How things are all unfair. It is. Preach it, it's all unfair. Right? I don't know. Okay. I have an idea now. No, I dunno. Yeah, because you're about to, I'm getting overwhelmed here. I know, but you're, but I can tell you're getting on your soapbox a little bit, why don't you give us a little bit of what you're thinking about this whole unbalance of systems? 'cause I can see it's, it's coming out well. I mean, oh, you're gonna me all heated here. Are are you sure that's not just the air conditioning in this, uh, studio? Oh, I'm okay. Oh, okay. You okay? Would you want me turn it up? No, it's fine. We turn it up honestly. 'cause if you did turn, do you turn down? Turn down. I don't even down. It's down. But either way it works so slowly here. But you would turn up, my instinct is it won't be 70 degrees until. Oh God. Um, this is so easy. Okay. It's a good word though. It's actual word that you can apply in real life. Here we go. Okay. Alright. Get back to what we were talking about, the unbalance of systems. Gimme some examples. So, I mean, recently I was just talking about like the gender pay gap. Yes. So it's gotten a little better in the last few years, but. Like if we're gonna be real, women still earn less than men for doing the same job. Right. So I think it's like now 82 cents on the dollar it is. Um, and that's like white to white, right? But if you consider race, then you're gonna go from white men to black women. It's crazy. It's 65 cents on the dollar. Same job. Same job. Same job. 65 cents on dollar. Yeah. That's insane. Yep. And then, you know, if you go Latina woman, it's 57 cents. So like it's not holy shit. Just, it's just like so layered and multifaceted. Right. And so now you have a system that undervalues women working. And, and like this argument is, is well women enter the workforce later, et cetera, et cetera. However, I mean, if we're just talking qualifications, just like you were saying earlier, like we should just be listening to words, and what people are saying, it kind of applies here. Right. Unbelievable. Um. Okay, going deeper into our little rabbit hole. Go. So the average white family in the US has like eight times more wealth than an average black family. Eight times. Eight times, yeah. Holy shit. Yeah, it's not a coincidence. Like, I mean, you had redlining, which happened in the sixties and it was where blacks couldn't get mortgages. And that like just affects even today. I mean, you have housing discrimination, underfunded schools, mass incarceration, it's not like you can just like work hard and get out of it, because there's so many hurdles. No, you can't. Totally sucks. And I mean, yes, you need to work hard. Can you get out of it? Can you break the cycle? Yes, absolutely. But it's still like, it's so difficult and I don't think, uh, enough people realize how challenging that is. I've read a book, I don't remember, it was for Vistage, it was years ago. Um, something along the line of like what socioeconomic class you were in. I mean, it didn't have all of these different things, but it was, it was based on socioeconomic class. Uh, and it was something like, I don't, it was single digits. Five to 8% of people can move one band. Like in their lifetime, it was like almost impossible. Right. And a lot of that, I mean, if you skip more than one, it's like generational wealth that you, somehow you fell into it, right? Yes, absolutely. Um, and so I know people are like, yes. I mean, they're the Elon Musk and the gates who like self-built man or whatever. Um, one in one in a billion. Right, right. Right place, right time. Right, right. Like it's not as if Right. Right. That applies to every single person. Correct. Um. If we're talking about housing, then you talk about like zip codes, right. And education. And you know how I, on my soapbox about education? Yep. But most public schools are funded by the local property taxes. So if you grow up in a wealthy neighborhood, congrats. Like your kid's probably gonna get a laptop, you'll have AP classes. But like the poor neighborhoods, you're sharing textbooks. Right. And it's, they're probably from the 1990s. And so it's not an level playing field. I mean, it's getting you, it's trying to again, break the system, get you out of the system in a different setting. Wow. You know, and it's steps along the way. Right. To move up your one band at a time. That's why like coming from immigrant parents, that is the biggest thing. Right. They wanted a better life for us and that they had, and that's what they seek out. Yeah. I mean, I guess that also roll over into healthcare. If you have money, you get same day appointments and preventive care. If you don't like good luck finding a doctor, like I deal with this a lot with some of our clients it could be two, three months before you get in with your primary care. Even from there. Again, we're spiraling. It's very deep, al um, but black women are three times more likely to die from pregnancy related causes than white women in the US. And it's not like, it's just like their genes that they're just more, you know, susceptible to dying. Right. If you look at the core of it, the availability of healthcare, right? That's, this is, uh, yeah, you're, this is terrible. I told you it's like it's, I don't wanna hear any of this. We were just gonna talk about some cool sociology stuff. Right. But when you start unpackaging it, right? Like there's just so many layers. Okay. Can we get out class power and inequality, uh, segment please. And let's get onto something that is, more upbeat. Can we upbeat this thing at all? Is this possible or not? Well, I mean, I think the only way to like be a little more upbeat is maybe we can talk about why it still matters today and how we're evolving and, you know, are we getting better? Are we acknowledging it? What are we doing? I think you said it earlier, right? We could start to notice how these systems show up in our everyday life, the social norms that we're talking about. If we learn about it on this podcast episode, then apply it to what's going on in our real life. We have the words to be able to see this stuff. I have an example. Can I use an example? Yes, absolutely. That's the easiest way to do it. So Amanda, imagine, you're at work. Say, I don't know, um, maybe in a very overheated podcast studio. Oh, stop it. Recording a podcast. Let's use that example. I love that I'm at work. Yeah. At the podcast studio that I volunteer my time for, but continue. Yeah. No, this is perfect. Right? And say like, a man, I get paid zero. Yes. You get paid. They don't need to know that. Nobody needs to know what we, we get paid. No, I'm saying like, it's funny, you reap all the rewards and I only get zero just. I'm just kidding. Wait a second. No, that is unfair. Alright, I can, I cannot have our listeners know that I'm killing on this podcast and I'm not paying you. Okay. That's not true. People. Okay, so let's say, Amanda, just for shits and giggles, okay. That your co-host for this podcast happens to be a man and happens to be prone to interrupting you. All the time. Um, from time to time. Fair. Okay. Okay. And then like Yeah. It turns into more interrupting and more interrupting. You get the idea, right? Oh, yes, I got it. Uhhuh. Okay. Uhhuh. This is totally hypothetical. Okay. Hypothetical, right? Okay. Doesn't happen in real life. Naturally you're getting pissed, but you're like, do I really wanna start this fight right now? Like, do, it's true. Here is where sociology, this is, I'm bringing it all together. Okay. Understanding sociology at the most basic level. Gives you the tools and understanding to know what's going on in the exact moment. Stay with me, think about it. Okay? There's a power dynamic between these two hosts if you want to, if you want to call them. You know, Amanda and Pete, okay. There's a power dynamic, right? It's real. It's like it's, there's gender stuff, there's friendship, shit. Maybe there's an age gap. It's all the things that we just talked about. And you sit there in that little split second and you're deciding how you want to come at me do you want to come at me hard and be like, oh dude, don't fucking interrupt me. Do you want to be more kind and be like, oh, you know what? I'm gonna talk to him after this podcast episode's over. Do you wanna let it go for three more times until maybe he stops doing it on his own? All these things like in your brain, you're probably going through okay. And making a call based on this is all sociological shit that you have to deal with. Okay? And then decide what to do. I'm not, I'm not saying I know what you're gonna do about it, but I'm saying that. Sociology is behind it all. Does that make sense? Yeah. That's the example I'm trying to use. Okay. Fair? Yeah. I'll see what you're laying down here. Yeah. Okay, fine. I know I got some shit to work on. Leave me alone. Um, I don't know. I feel like your example really close to home. Was it? But it was a little, it wasn't us. No. Now I'm Justing. It was, now I'm reflecting. It was, it was two generic podcast hosts that live, live somewhere. Yes. In Europe. Okay. Okay. Fair. But like, what am I supposed to do with that? Where are we supposed to go? Like I get the sociology, right? Think we can all pinpoint times when we, it's applied in our life or we see it, but like, I'm not some scientist and I'm not gonna go back to the lab and run experiments or do like, you're not, you know, social tests. I not, I think that's, don't think what you would do. I, no, I have an idea. Wouldn't I have an idea? Over tomorrow, let's turn this podcast studio into a sociological laboratory. Okay. And we'll go do studies and, you know. Yeah. I have a feeling you're gonna be out of money, over tomorrow, because of how many times I've used the word over tomorrow. Yeah, that's true. It was too easy. It was too easy. It was way too easy. You said bar too low and you are, putting way too many dollars in the cookie jar. So, um, what was your question That I completely interrupted. I. Remember, it was all hypothetical situation. Right. Totally right. Um, no, it's just more of like, you know, I think we can all understand sociology and identify those moments in our life. Yes. But like, what is the answer, like it's, oh yeah, no, I get what you're saying. It's, it's about being aware of it., it gives you the capability to make a better decision in the moment and a way less emotional, like detached decision. So it's not like there's real answers to this. All it is, is whatever you decide, you're deciding it consciously without, it's like, uh, what's it, what's the word? It's like emotional intelligence. Right? Uh, go back to our fun little podcast example. we were talking about earlier, you could literally tell me to go fuck myself if you want to. I, I get up and leave the studio I'm done. I lose. Right? Or he could be super polite and never say anything and eat it every single time. Be like, I, I think my cohost is a dick. Either one of those, at least you consciously are. Managing that through all the emotion that goes around it is what is what I'm trying to explain. That's what learning about sociology helps with. It ain't giving you any answer. Yeah. So you making gotta figure out what sword you wanna die on Yes, absolutely. Okay. This is literally all about your emotional intelligence and being able to unhook all of the things going on in your body with how to respond outwardly. Okay, so basically what you're saying is like sociology is kind of the way to put a name on things, right? Like we all know Yes. Like once we name something, it has powers. So we are just perfect identifying Yes. Right. Harry Potter. You can't say Voldemort. You can't, you give Voldemort power's. He comes back to life. Amanda don't ever say Voldemort, right? So if we're giving sociology power, then I think we are giving the power to being able to identify. These things in life. Yes. And call it out and evolve and do better. Look here. Here's the deal. At the end of the day, it's up to you whether or not you wanna conform, to societies or sociological expectations, whatever. Sometimes, I would totally argue conforming is survival for me, it absolutely is. Absolutely sure. Yes. No question. There's. No way. You're changing social norms overnight, right? It's gonna take time. So sometimes your voice is dismissed. Even my voice is dismissed. Not 'cause of what you said. Just 'cause it's you who's saying it. Like in a new job we were talking about earlier or some really high stakes situation. Maybe that's not the time to challenge the norm, but in other situations like you're with friends or with me and you're tired of the way, it always seems like one sided. Maybe that's when you push back. It's really up to just sort of the individual person. It's really fluid. That's what I think I'm trying to say. So it sounds like it, like you reassess the system, right? Yes. So you're less likely to maybe react emotionally and maybe more likely to respond intentionally. That's perfect. And you're choosing your moment of when to lean in or when to pull back, when to put a boundaries. And it's okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Think of sociology, like you're superhero and it's your superpower. It's your x-ray vision. Right? That's what it's, but just for so cues, that's sociology, but like how far should this go? Like are we talking about just you interrupting on the podcast or like are there bigger scary issues? Like, how do you, but we know that they're bigger, scary issues. Well, there was the most famous sociological, experiment of all time, something called the Stanford Prison Experiment. Have you heard of this thing? I have not. What is it? Okay. So every ology has a famous experiment, okay. Of course. So this one for sociology is crazy. Claim to fame. Yes, absolutely. 1971. Okay. Psychologist Philip Zimbardo set up a mock prison in the basement of Stanford University to study how people respond to roles of power and submission. Amanda, he recruited 24 college aged men, randomly assigned half to be guards and half to be prisoners. You with me so far? Yes. The guards were given uniforms, batons, cool sunglasses, everything. They looked like guards. Okay. And then the prisoners to make it as real as possible, were arrested in their homes, strip searched, assigned numbers instead of names, and brought into jail. Super realistic. Got it. Okay. Sounds traumatic. The whole point of the experiment was to observe everyone's behavior in a controlled environment over a period of two weeks. That's it. Two weeks. Keep in mind. Everybody knew everything was fake. Okay? Everybody, all 24 people. So everyone's roleplaying. Everybody roleplay. The prisoners knew they were prisoners. The fricking, uh, guards knew they were guards. Okay. Yeah. So in six days, in just six days, they had to shut the entire experiment down because things got too unsafe to continue what the college students stood with. The guards became too abusive, so they were forced to stop. There were no rules. They didn't tell them what the guards could do or couldn't do, so they put them in solitary confinement. They stole their mattresses. They stripped them naked. They made them clean toilets with their bare hands after they took a shit. The prisoners subsequently became submissive and internalized their roles so much that some were treated for depression and emotional distress. Six days, one prisoner had to be removed from the experiment in only 36 hours because his symptoms were so severe he couldn't continue. They hadn't formally recognized PTSD yet, like, 'cause this was before 1980s when they had PTSD. But I'm assuming this guy had PTSD, pete, why are you bringing all this up? Good question. Is that what you're asking me? Right? I know. Here's the deal. The Stanford Prison Experiment shows how quickly our social roles and environment can override our individual personalities. People weren't acting evil. They were responding to the system that this psychologist placed them into. And today, this experiment is now considered the foundational case in understanding power, authority, conformity, and institutional behavior. I mean, if you ever wondered, it's insane how the system affects people. I guess this is the proof, right? That the system matters more than the people that are in it. It's a, yes. This is why, like a fake prison name tag. That's why we say we look at social and general norm more than we look at who's saying the words like it's stupid. We're not listening to the words we're listening to. Who says them? It's the same problem. Yes. It's insane. Alright, well now that my brain is fully overloaded, um, can we just move on to Vaxx because I can't take anymore. You don't like men having to clean their own shit with bare hands? No, it just, it the fact that like, exciting. I thought that was a good, fun fact. Feel like our society is just like this fragile system. It is. It's very fragile. We all just. I mean, but you can't break it. Like this is the conundrum. No, but here's what we're gonna do. That's what I said. We have to make our choices. We have to be emotionally intelligent. We have to understand, uh, sociological cues. And then we have to speak up to start to change those social norms. And that's what we're trying to do. That's what our system's trying to accomplish. It's just taking forever. But think of all the movements that are out there now, right? And There's folks on both sides of the movements, right? Oh, it needs to stay the old way. I like the old way. And then there's folks that are pushing boundaries to get it to the new way, the Civil rights movement, like the hashtag me too movement. Like all these things, black Lives Matter, all these are ways that we're trying to change these norms, it just takes fucking forever. There's some positive shit out there. I promise there is. All right. You wanna do fun facts? I do. Let's go. I'm good for it. Fun fact time. Here we go. Okay, help me out. Help me out. Dig me out. Fun fact. Fun fact. Um, did you know the guy who coined the term sociology? Wanted to be a priest first, A priest. So this is like fallback career. Yeah, But he got kicked outta the seminary for being too rebellious. August, the father of sociology, we talked about him earlier, originally studied to be a Catholic priest, but ended up founding a secular religion of humanity instead. Thank God for getting kicked outta the seminary. Let's go August. God has a plan. Okay, number two. So Emil Durkheim. We talked about him earlier. So he was big on learning about suicide, right? He wasn't the first to like coin the term suicide or the first to write about or anything, but he was the first to study it as a social phenomenon. He was the first to prove that suicide rates were not just based on personal feelings. They were tied heavily to religion, marital status, and even social integration. Sociology's everywhere people. That's wild. Number three. Do you know how we said earlier that the first US sociology department was founded at the University of Chicago? Yes. Do you know why? No. No clue. So because Chicago had all these different neighborhoods and an abnormal amount of crime compared to all of the places and all these hobos, but it's still like today. I know absolutely all these people were coming in looking for work. Oh, by the way, Chicago also had the first known serial killer. Did you know that? No. HH Holmes? Yes. Did you ever read Devil in the White City? No. Oh my God, Eric Larson, one of my favorite authors of all time. Amanda, we need to Red Devil in the White City. Okay, excellent. Okay. Um, yeah, Chicago is like a real world lab right there on the streets of Chi Town. Let's go. All right. Oh, um, I feel like it still is. Yeah. No. Hey, no hate to Chi Town. We like Chi Town. No. Yes. There's no hate. It just, Interesting. Uh, number four. So for the most of the 20th century sociology and psychology, were in a full on turf war for total domination, total domination. Of the area. Uh, psychologists were all about, it's in your head. And sociologists were all about, nah, not really. It's more like the system. Uh, spoiler alert, they were both right. They had to learn to share their turf. Now they come and work together. How just like two podcast hosts coming together to work. We're so good. Okay, number five, did you know there's actually a term for feeling socially lost? I had to look that up. Any idea what it is? Alone. Alone. Alone. Yes. It's alone. No, It's called an enemy. Oh, okay. Durkheim came up with it to describe the disconnection people feel when society's rules break down. So yes, that weird vibe that, uh, I have some time. It actually has a name. Hmm, enemy. Interesting. And finally. Can't have fun facts without one about TikTok trends. Am I right? Oh, I mean so much there. Sociology, goldmine, TikTok. Here we go. TikTok is basically, I promised I was gonna do a TikTok one. TikTok is basically a living sociology lab. Every trend dance or hashtag challenge is a glimpse into how people form identity, seek status, and conform to group norms in real time. It's peer pressure, popularity contests, and social signaling all in 60 seconds or less. Thank you, TikTok. That's all I got. I mean, those are kind of fascinating. Good job. I like that last one. I hope that was probably the best sociology class anyone has ever had in their life. I think it was, I think we could teach sociology 1 0 1. You want I, no. Okay, fine. No, it stresses me out. Okay. I do. And then you don't. But I need you. I need my co-host. would you do me a favor? Would you take 48 hours to consider this? Okay. And get back to me over tomorrow. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. Okay. I mean, oh, I don't know. No. See, I can't, I can't wait till 48 hours You're so down. It's too heavy. You're so down. Sit too heavy. Because Sociology is everywhere like it is. How do you ever turn it off? You don't. I don't think you can, right? Nope. You have HH homes, you got hashtag challenges and like, I feel like once you look for it, you can't unsee it. It's just always there. I mean, yes, us understanding it helps to change the world hopefully and figure out like our place in it and what we can do to make it better. But it's a lot. It's a lot. It's okay. So since it's so much, you wanna break it down, give us like a few takeaways. Bullet point it, we'll do it, we'll do the sort of sophisticated takeaways. Um. Okay, so first, if you liked what you heard, want to dig a little deeper 'cause we always like to give you a little bit extra. Start with a few documentaries. Try 13th. Oh, that one's on mass. Incarcerate you've it. Yeah. Another one. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That was brutal. I saw that years ago. Or misrepresentation on gender roles? Uh, both. Awesome. Or if you wanna pick up a book, try The Sociological Imagination by Searight Mills. It talks about how important it's to develop our awareness. Of how power and history shape our lives. A good read, or at the very least, just people watch, right? Let the world be your lab like we were talking about. Just observe. Go to Disneyland. Yeah. Observe. Yes. Oh my God. What a great way to go. Observe group itself. Yes, it is awesome. It's Ally. It's totally fun. So many things to talk about. Disneyland we did one on Disneyland. We should do another one on sociology at Disneyland. And finally, if you wanna sound sort of sophisticated, here are a few big ideas to take away. So first, sociology is a study of society and group behavior. It looks at how people interact, follow norms and shape institutions like family, religion, and education. It's different from psychology, which focuses more on the individuals Sociology zooms out and says, Hey, the system matters, not just the people in it. Number two, your personal choices are shaped by social forces, what you wear, who you date, how you vote, even how you grieve. These aren't just personal decisions. They're often guided by cultural expectations and invisible norms. Number three, social structures. Affect opportunity. Like we said earlier, race, class, gender, and geography. All influence. Who has access to resources, safety, education, and power. Sometimes in ways we don't notice unless we study the system. So study the system people. Number four, patterns matter more than expectations. Sociology isn't just about individual outliers, it's about trends and recurring behaviors across groups, communities, and institutions. Finally, sociology helps you see the bigger picture and increase your emotional intelligence. Whether you're navigating workplace politics, scrolling, TikTok, or wondering why you feel outta place at a wedding. Sociology gives you the tools to understand the context behind it all. Amanda, if you don't remember any of that, just say, oh yeah, sociology explains why we all clap at the end of, uh. You know comedy shows. Boom. Genius. You're welcome. And there you have it, fellow listeners, A crash course in the study of us from power dynamics at work to viral trends on TikTok. Sociology helps decode the hidden scripts that guide our everyday lives. If we've done our job today, hopefully you're walking away feeling a little more sophisticated with a clearer sense of how social norms are built, why clapping for people makes sense, and what it means to actually see the system instead of just the symptoms. If you enjoyed the episode, hit subscribe. Leave us a review and share it with someone who thinks sociology is just a bunch of theories with long names behind it all. But until next time, stay curious. Question the script and keep it sort of sophisticated.
