Episode Transcript
Welcome back to sort of sophisticated where. I would argue anyway. Curiosity meets just the right amount of sarcasm. Yeah, but that's like an asterisk. It's after all the editing. Your face is an asterisk. Amanda, I mean. Hi, how are you today? I'm well. How are you? Uh, I'm fine. Fun fact people. Um, Amanda controls the mics just so everybody knows. I don't, she's the engineer if we all remember this. So when I go all unhinged, she just stops recording anyway, so we don't have to edit anything. The thing that sucks about it all is I think I'm on a roll. And she's literally staring at me laughing and it's not even being recorded and it's super not fair. So I'm just gonna tell everybody, you're welcome. You don't have to listen to Peter Babel. I would argue those are the best parts and those are the ones that should come out of the vault. But you were the only one who probably thinks you are the best parts. Okay, whatever. Fine. Maybe. Oh, we always start so hard, don't we? Like what is going on here? I think you do. You can, I think we need to be nicer job straight for the jugular. I'm gonna work on being nicer to you. Okay. Whatever. Wasn't that like an episode three? Yeah. Okay. We just shot that whole lot. Okay. Anyway. We did, yeah. Yeah. What's going on? Um, not much. I just got back from our week long, 1900 mile trip. Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. You and it was a lot of fun. You and your gallivanting all around the United States of I was, I was America. Yes. Yes. We ended up in Wyoming. Wyoming. Yeah. Okay. Cheyenne. We went Cheyenne. Yep. We went to a bison ranch. There's really bison ranch There is. Okay. And I thought there was just like bull riding and stuff. I think it was like touristy than it really has anything. But um, so we arrived there. Wait, you weren't one of those mothers that like took their daughter to close to the bison and the bison almost killed you? No, absolutely not. Okay. We all like a safe in control. Okay. Okay. Go. So we're waiting in line Yeah. To go on the train to go to, that takes us out to the corrals. And this lady, um, who's helping us get on the train is covered in what appeared to be dried blood. And so like us Californians. Yeah. You know, our first. Thought was, oh, she's part of this reenactment that they're gonna do with on makeup. Yeah. I would, I would think immediately she murdered somebody. But, but okay. It's all makeup, right? Uhhuh? Yeah. No. Yeah. And so we have our kids, mind you, they're little, yeah. In grade school. And they go, mommy, what's wrong with her? And I was like, oh, I don't know. And I'm like, maybe she's, gonna do something. Yeah. You're hyping this up, like you think this is all part of the act. So Of course, what do kids do? She gets close enough. And she's talking to the children. And the kids go, what happened to your arms? I love it. Perfect. Right? Yeah. I was like, oh no. thinking she's gonna be like, oh, it's, you know, it's just makeup or whatever. She goes, oh, so you know the prairie dogs, they dig those holes and sometime the bison's legs will get stuck in it and they'll break. No. And we had to put a bison down. My children's. Oh, oh, oh my God. She's got blood all over her hands. Yeah. No, her arms, everything. Her clothes, her like face has it, it's all dry and like, this is my kind of woman. Oh my goodness. Lemme tell you. Oh my Lord. And so they go miss bison blood. So is that all the blood from the bison? She goes. No, there's a lot more still at like in the box. There's some, by the way, there's some of my blood on there too. You know, there's all that. Right? So, so, uh, my kids would've like been like, yeah, dad, we're not going on this. Like little bison. I know. They were like, do we get to see it? Yeah, no. I was like, no. It's all things. Oh my God, you got cool kids. My kids would've been out. Yeah. They've been like, dad, can we go back to Disneyland? Please? I'm done. We don't need anymore. And this is why we go, this is nonsense on our 1900 going around different. That's, you're cool. That's 'cause you're a cool homeschooling mama. We're trying, trying. All right. Enough babbling. Okay, enough babbling. Let's go. What are we talking about today? Go. We're taking it back to the courtroom. The courtroom. The courtroom. I dunno if we've been in the courtroom yet. I don't think we have. Wait, dun, dun, dun. Okay, let's go. But what's in the courtroom? It's like, it's a special anniversary. It's the hundredth anniversary of the Scopes Monkey trial. Which ran from July 10th to July 21st in 1925. And just as a quick refresher for anyone who wasn't alive back then, like, you know, Pete was, because he's kind of ancient. Um. The Scopes Monkey trial was basically where a small town high school teacher got busted for teaching evolution to his students. And wham, all of a sudden the whole country was arguing about God science and what kids are and aren't allowed to learn today in school, which is fairly similar to today. It is. I love this. Um, I wasn't alive. Thank you very much. I know, I know. I was just joking. I was only, I got jokes. I was only half alive. Because if that was a hundred years ago right, like I was That's true. Like I'm a half a life. I don't even know if that's a thing. Okay. That's thing. This was like serious shit though. I remember like watching, I was in like, I was fifth grade maybe I don't remember. Right. There's like a home movie. Right. They totally made me watch movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, it, it was excellent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So here we are today still battling and did you hear like just a week ago or so? Marilyn just upheld the rights of parents to opt their children out of lessons in school featuring L-G-B-T-Q theme books. Oh yeah. It just happened. Oh no, totally. Yeah. Like again, it's like we're still going through this today. I know. I love how this is all connected. Right. That's why history's important. Yes. I know. Here we are a hundred years later still arguing over like state imposed curriculum about this is right up your rally. Oh God, I know why you picked this. Okay. History repeats itself. I love this. Um, I don't know if I love that history repeats itself, but anyways, but here we are. So long as we're learning from it, then it's okay. Right? Yeah. I mean, that's all, as long as we're becoming cultured and curious from it. Right. But before you ask me like, Hey g Pete, how's this ho gonna make me cultured and curious. Okay. Um, can I just launch because I didn't Absolutely. I did. I did the homework. I'm sure you did. Sometimes I do the homework. We all know you did. Sometimes I didn't. Okay. Like I read up on like the whole constitution. I read the Bill of Rights. I read it. The articles of Confederate. Not really. Okay. Oh man, I was gonna be so impressed. Can I go? Yeah. Two words. Okay. The first Amendment Well, that's technically three words. I hate you. Okay. Uh, three words. The First Amendment, thus shouldn't even count. Okay? That's an article all by itself. So let's just say why. Why wouldn't you just say like, so two words. First Amendment. First amendment, because I'm not that cool. Okay. You're more sophisticated than I was. Okay. Here we're, and I quote, here we go. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. Thank you, James Madison and in America. Where we have like a hundred different religions. This is how we separate church and state and much to some people's chagrin, we make sure that none of these religious groups can force their beliefs on any public institution. Now, Amanda, some crazies would say that's anti-religion. It's not, it's anti favoritism and it's awesome. It's what America is founded on. This coming from a Catholic mind. You, okay? Uh, that's what the Scopes Monkey trial was all about, and that's why it's still relevant today. So just substitute, like you just said, one issue for another. I don't care whether it's Maryland and L-G-B-T-Q rights, whatever it is, like it's all connected. Make sense? Absolutely. Except can we use chagrin as our word of the day, please? Because it's quite a fancy word. It is. I just, I just threw chagrin in. Um, I totally would. Except I have it even better, one this week. Oh, dear. Okay, can we go? Yep. Okay. The word of the day is Jako. Jako. Jako. Yeah. Like with an A. Like no joko. No, like J-O-C-O-S-E. Oh, joko. Mm. It actually means playful or humorous. Oh, okay. It comes from the Latin root. 'cause I know how you love your little roots. Uh, Jos meaning Jo or Jes. Yeah. Yeah. Here we are. So like how you think you're so jako, but like not actually really? Yeah. Okay. So what is today? Opposite day or something? I mean, it could be if you're like 12, but Okay. I'm just kidding. Okay. Uh, you're so funny. Yeah, I know. I am. I'm rubber your glue. Whatever you say, it bounces off of me and sticks. And here we are. And here we are. Okay. Right. Okay. I win. Started. Here we are. You lose. Okay. Okay. Mm-hmm. So why don't you go ahead and just recap, uh, the whole thing first, and then we can kind of go from there. Alright. Good idea. We ready? Mm-hmm. Okay. So first I gotta set the stage a little. It's all about setting stages. Lights, camera, action. Okay, so it all started in a little courthouse in 1925. Amanda turned down the lights, in Tennessee. Amanda of all places, Dayton, Tennessee, they passed something called the Butler Act, which basically made it illegal to teach evolution in public school because people were all freaking out about evolution as a quote, threat to traditional Christian values. Because you gotta remember around that time, like a bunch of schools had already started teaching Darwin's theory of evolution and all these conservative religious groups, especially in the south like Tennessee, saw this as basically a bunch of infidels saying like, the Bible's wrong, and you might be related to a monkey. Wait a second. Should we do a quick, Darwin recap on the theory? Uh, probably a good idea. Okay. Because I will say, like I say, a lot of times. Darwin was right? Yeah. When it comes to Darwin was right on a lot of things. Okay, let's do a quick Darwin thing and then we'll get back on track. Okay. Okay. Alright, so quick refresh on Darwin. So he was a British scientist in the 18 hundreds who basically sailed around the world on this little boat called the HMS Beagle and studied plants and animals and fossils and all like nature stuff, like all over the place. Uh, and in 1859 he publishes his magnum opus, the book. On the Origin of Species, which basically challenged every belief on creation that anybody had up until this time. So he basically said like that all the species of life have evolved over time to a process called natural selection, where the organisms best adapted to their environment are most likely to survive, and then of course pass on their traits. So Right. Basically survival of lapidus like over a million years or something. Exactly. Right, right, right, right. Okay. Makes sense. That's Darwin. Okay. Right, because, so anyway, when there are dumb people around, yeah. No offense to anybody. But why are they still here? Oh, I see what you mean. We can, wow. Wow. I didn't even know where you were going with that one. That was as mean as anything I've ever said. It wasn't that mean. Everyone thought it. Everyone's thought it. Wow. Okay. And back on track. So back to the whole Butler rack thing. So in 1925, some guy named John Washington Butler pushes through this bill that ended up being called the Butler Bill. Right. Go figure. 'cause he is, you know, so original has to be so cool, right? As a way to protect kids from what he saw as morally dangerous ideas. Well. I mean, not just like him, but like all the people who were backing him. You know what I mean? Okay. So I guess all these conservatives didn't want like anyone messing with all these young kids' heads that might lead them to question the Bible or God forbid, authority in general in the public school system. So I mean for context, okay Amanda, this was like during the whole like time of prohibition and also like a lot of people don't remember this, but like the KKK was totally still lynching people in the 1920s and then we had just finished World War I. So I needless to say, anxiety was like at an all time high and people in general felt a little outta control. So in their defense, banning evolution sort of felt like, I think a way to get a little control back during the time of outta controlness. But I mean, like out of all the things that were on the list of important things happening, this is the sword that we all died on. Look, dude, this was, this was the south, this was Christian values. What do you want me to say? Okay. All right. I guess so. Yes. So. Basically in the 1920s we had lynchings. KK, K, End of World War I prohibition. And the Scopes Monkey trial. You, you wanna give us a little bit more on who? Here we go. Let's go. Who was and are? John Scopes? John Scopes. He has a first name. People don't know that. Uh, 24-year-old science teacher who agreed on purpose. Amanda, mind you, to get arrested to test the law. So, like did he do this on purpose? Yes. No, this whole thing was on purpose. This is all set up. You're gonna love this. Okay. So he wasn't like this hardcore rebel guy or anything like at all. He was only a substitute teacher and he was the head football coach at Ray County High School in Dayton, Tennessee, who was backed. By the ACL U, the American Civil Liberties Union. Oh, yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So, but like the school should have been progressive to begin with. No. That the school wasn't, he was, oh, he was backed by the ACL. Yes. This is all a understood. This is all a setup, Amanda. Okay. Right. So it's not like scopes really cared one way or the other about this whole evolution thing. Like at all. He was a Guinea pig. Darwin Guinea pig. That's hysterical. I don't even get credit for that. She doesn't even laugh. I'm just throwing it out there. Okay. So one sort of something like this, 1925, the A CLU was looking for someone to challenge the whole Butler accident. Oh, because the Butler Act came into effect. Yes, that's it. This is after. So they saw it as a violation of free speech and free thought, and a group of local A CLU people in Dayton figured it was a good way to get their town on the map. Like Wow. Like literally make money for tourism dollars Really? And gain some notoriety. Yes. This is a whole Ponzi scheme. This is it. Yes. They asked John Scopes if he'd be their guy. And he's like, sure, I'm 24 years old. I don't wanna do anything. Wow. I'm the head football coach. Wow. Let's go. Put me in coach. I did not know that. Yes, that's it. It's insane, huh? Yeah. It's total set up. I mean, he knew about the whole like trial. Yeah. But not was all, no, he wa this was like, he wasn't dying on any hill here. He didn't, no. He didn't give two shits about this whole thing. Huh. This is why I love doing the research. Right. Okay. Okay. It's okay. Right. Okay. So what made this trial so iconic, compared to a million others, I suppose, is that it wasn't really about John breaking the law or anything like that. It was really more about America. And being at a crossroads and figuring out like what our cultural identity was gonna be going forward. So of course the whole case blew up in the media. I don't know, whatever media they had back then. Radio, of course, not television, and people started showing newspaper. Newspaper, yeah, yeah, yeah. People started showing up from all over the country to watch the trial. I mean, they like packed up their horse and buggies and headed to frigging Dayton, Tennessee. It was nuts. I mean, that's one way that we would say that. He went viral in 1925. The guy was totally viral in 1925. Guy was the first viral guy ever. Let's go. Is this like the first media circus? Uh, yes, absolutely. This is so great. Okay, like newspapers. They were having field days. Amanda, cartoon Monkey Monkeys. They were selling those papers. Yeah, they were drawn cartoon monkeys in suits. Reporters were flooding the town. How about this fun fact. Somebody even brought a chimpanzee, a real live chimpanzee does a trial. Yeah. To chill outside the courtroom every day as a mascot for the whole thing. It was insane. They had a mascot. Okay. I think we need to play by play because I mean, obviously we all know the outcome, but I mean like how did it actually all go down seeing that there was chimpanzees on the outside of the courtroom? Oh, no. This was big stuff, right? This was epic. It was like Tom Cruise going up against Jack Nicholson and a few good men. I want the truth. You can't handle the truth. Oh my God. Sorry. Greatest movie ever. Anyway, I don't think that's how it went down. That's exactly how went, basically. Okay, so in one corner you had Clarence Darrow, he was the defense attorney, like basically saying free speech matters and like we're gonna kick your ass. He was the science guy. 'cause by the way, he was already super famous. Dar was at the time for being a lawyer and winning all these cases for like labor unions back in the day. Oh wow. In the early 19. Oh yeah. No, this guy, everybody knew who? Claire Daryl. He was a big slugger. Totally was, yeah. He was totally Tom Cruise. Uh, then for the prosecution you had william Jennings. Brian. Okay. Three time presidential candidate, William Jennings Bryan. Oh. Who was over three, by the way. Lost three times. Well, clearly. Clearly, yeah. And he was all about, defending traditional Christian values, and everything the Bible ever said, total fundamentalism. So we got like total a fight here then of like modernism versus fundamentalism and it's, I think just every other battle in America. It's culture. Right? That's it. And cultural identity. That's it. Yes. You nailed that well said. Way to wrap that shit up in a bow. But with like a whole Lin Manuel Miranda Broadway. Oh my God. To it, right? Like that was it. Right? It's so good. Teach me all my history. It's fine. We should talk to Lin Manuel. You should about, you should. We should talk to him about doing a Scopes Monkey trial, like Broadway play. That would be excellent. Okay. Quick and dirty Play by play. You ready? Yeah. Whole thing. I'm gonna go fast. Day one, I'm literally gonna go day one through 12 as fast as I can. We're gonna rip through it. Okay. Day one, trial opens, everybody shows up. It's like a thousand degrees. Like I said, think Coachella, but like with no music, it just sucks. Not nearly as entertaining. Yeah. And you just have smelly chimpanzees everywhere. Day two and three, jury selection. Everybody's getting all weird and awkward. No one wants to look at each other. You got like the Bible thumpers in one corner and the scientists in the other corner, but like, they're on the jury, so they all know they're gonna have to work together at some point to I don't know, get a verdict. So they're kind of shitting their pants and just being really quiet. Like I'm actually real curious. Which jurors they asked to be excused. Oh my God. But anyways, God, I have no, like, I digress. Lost, lost to history. All right. Uh, day four and five, enter Clarence Darrow and William Jennings. Bryan armed with some, let's call it sarcasm, a pocket constitution. And. The latest version of the King James Bible in their hands. So both of them, well they had, let's, this is what it's all about. Well, I mean, I figured one of them did, but I'd be so interested. Well, the defense also, okay, maybe Darrell had a constitution also. Maybe, Jennings Brian had the Bible. I don't know. But you get the point, right? Okay. Day six and seven, they cracked the science books out. Baby, let's go. Prosecution goes nuts. Holy airball. What's happening? Science books. Why is science in a Courtroom to eight and nine? The judges decide, Hey. Check this. No science is allowed in the trial. No science is allowed in a science trial. What the fuck is that all about? Like Gerald puts away a science book 'cause like he's not allowed to use them. The judge banned the science book, didn't ban the Bible, but is it banned the science book fair. But yeah, not fair. No, no, no, no, no. Not fair. But like this is what we're dealing with in the south in 1925. But. The trial wasn't about science. They weren't trying whether or not evolution was real or not real technically. No. They were trying whether or not it should be brought into a classroom. This was about cultural identity in the United States of America. This was about, like you just said, fundamentalism versus modernism. Like where are we going folks? What are we allowed to teach? Right? So then if you are not gonna allow the science, he's trying to make his damn point, then you shouldn't allow the Bible. That's all I'm saying. Yeah. Right. But you're allowed, one not the other. Okay. But Daro doesn't give a shit 'cause he's smart. Af and he's cooking up a new plan. Okay, so guess what he does? Day 10 flips the script. Calls Brian the prosecuting lawyer on the stand. Really? Yes, he did. Okay. Totally did. Yes. So people were gripping their pearls like what happened? Now, does it seem a little Jack Nicholson, Tom Cruise, right? A little yay. Yes. Everyone's like, holy shit. What just happened? Even the chimpanzee outside was going crazy, right? It was nuts. Okay. Day 11, climax. Brian gets grilled by Darrow. Literally, like in a few Good men. Okay? Um, but all about the Bible. Okay, so Darryl starts going, okay, so did Jonah really live in a whale? Did he really, Brian, like, did, did God really create the world in six days? Like really in six days? How do you know that? And if it was only Adam and Eve, someone was screwing their sister to make all these people, somehow, I'm just saying right. Like seriously, I don't know. Um, and then day 12, the finale, yeah. So scopes is found guilty. He loses. Okay. Find a hundred bucks. 'cause technically he broke the law, right? He wasn't allowed to teach. Uh, and here we are a hundred years later and America's still arguing. There you go. Day one through 12. How'd I do? I'm sweating over here. I mean, it was awesome. I bust through that fast. But he lost. He, because like I thought he had won. He didn't win. No. Totally guilty. They pounded the gavel. Paid a hundred dollars. By the way, you know how much a hundred dollars is like nowadays? Like a lot of money. 1800 bucks. You had to pay 1800 bucks. I mean, $1,800 is nothing. Well, for a freaking substitute high school, I, he was backed by other people. Okay, fine. So then what? I mean, he, they must have won something, right? Like they wouldn't have gone through this whole trial and processed if there wasn't something to wait. Just split hairs. Of course. Of course. You are absolutely right. Kind of did. Let's, so maybe not like legally, but what did he win? It's, it's like what you just said. The trial wasn't even about who was gonna win or lose in the first place. Right. You were totally onto it, right? I just didn't So what, what was on the table to win? It was about calling bullshit on all the shit lawmakers do and putting the judicial system to the test. And it took a minute, but like it worked. What do you mean it worked? Because when I was doing all my research, I read that the actual Butler act that started this whole thing in 1925, stayed on the books in Tennessee all the way up until 19, 67 or something. That's 40 more years. So it doesn't sound like it really worked. It just kind of sounds like, we put up with it for like, nothing really happened. No, none of that shit really mattered. Right. And then you were almost born, so like, wow. What, what is it with you and age, you know what I mean? Nothing about it. No, I'm, you know, what're 1925? You know what I think you're trying to be, you're trying to be jaco. That's it. Thank you. Boom. I want my dollar. You did, you did. I want my dollar, but from like 1925. Yeah, you were just saying how, you know, 50 years since it's a hundred year, right? You've been in 50. So keep bear with me. But it took that long. It did. Not really. What do you mean? Not really? Really? Because, 'cause people go underground, right? Remember when you just said like, oh, it was about America's fight for cultural identity. Yeah. It wasn't, right. Yeah. Okay. The whole thing. Right. So that was the shift. 1925, that's what they won. So after that, more and more schools started teaching evolution and they didn't give a shit about what the court said anymore. So from 19 25, 19 67, the Butler Act was still on the books. Technically, nobody gave a shit. cause the fine was so little, like nobody cared what the consequence was. 'cause they realized they were gonna get away with it. Amen. Done and done. So all these schools started implementing everything. They were like, fuck it. It violates the first Amendment. In the end, dude, John scopes wins. We win. That's what happened. Done and done. Okay. That makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So if I'm tracking though, they lost the battle. They didn't quite win the war, but at least it started the New War. Yes. Right? Yes. Good, good. Yes. Eventually then like science caught up and biology teachers were celebrated. Absolutely, yes. Here we are. Yes, everything worked, but there's still now a new thing, everything, right? Like it's always, always something new. There is, but the point is, is now you have to take all that shit seriously. So this was like the OG battle that made us really pay attention to all the things that have come after it. Yeah, right. Because I mean, then it was like Darwin versus the Bible, right? Yes, correct. But realistically, I mean like now it's the same thing, right? Just LG BT Q, doesn't matter what it in it is anything the it's, it's whatever you were bitching about a few weeks ago. AB 84. AB 44, right. Let's go. Right, Who really gets to decide all that kind of stuff anyway, right? That's the whole point. It's like what? No, it's really, it's intriguing though because there are so many different levels, right? So in the case of AB 84, it was started by the Assembly Education Committee. Um, but if you mean for things like the Scopes Monkey trial, that's like your local school board. So they. Usually are the ones who have direct control and they're the ones that get elected by us. You know, hence why you should go vote. Make sure you vote, let's go. Especially on local election stuff. Um, they approve the curriculum, they decide on the books that are in the library or what's using, you know, in the classroom, which subjects get emphasized or ignored. So that's why you really need to like get out there and vote seriously, and you gotta know what's going on in your community. And I think a lot of people are like, well, I don't have kids. It doesn't matter like it does. I mean, you just graduated your last one. But it does, it does. I have kids I know because it's. Full circle. And so if you, there aren't people who are involved and care then. you just have The ones who do care and pay attention. Yes. That probably shouldn't be around anyway. I mean, like we talked about, I mean there are lots of opinions. My bad. Yeah. But then after that, what do you have? So it's just the local school board is all like, no, they decide everything. No way. There's more to it locally. And then there's like the state education department, and they're the ones that set the academic standards. Right. So what you're supposed to learn, oh my god. So California, that's Gavin. Newsom. Okay, fine. Well, I mean, not him directly. No, but like he, okay, fine. But it's the department, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. States can totally mandate certain topics. Like in the scopes, they can teach evolution, they can ban certain interpretations of history. Oh, they totally rewrite history all the time. Which textbooks can, are used, right, statewide. So you have like the state, then you have your local, right. And then ultimately it's like the principles and the teachers who then interpret all the standards and they gonna make the day-to-day decisions. So though, while teachers may have some discretion in how they teach, um, their freedom really depends on their district and the community and culture. And it's wild to me. 'cause if you think about that after coming back from our road trip Yeah. Of our 1900 miles. Yeah. Being in like Wyoming and Montana, so different than. Here. Well, people are putting down bison apparently. And I mean, and it's a total, different culture. No, I know it whole different life. It's total, I mean, and not values maybe per se, but like No, but some of it is, but some of it is, America does have divided values. They do. And, but Isn't that the beauty though of it is community, right? Like. But I think that's the whole point you're trying to make here is like, we can't, you, you, we can't ignore any of it because if one group ignores some of it, well then it's like unbalanced. So like, right. You need the balance. You need to get out there, you need to vote, you need to care, you need to pay more attention. Because if you don't challenge the status quo, you mess up the yin yang and you need that you need balance. Yes. Because if not, the pendulum swings too much. Yes, absolutely. And then you have the soon to be 18 and 30 year olds who are like What? Right. Had no, I mean, you know what the 18 and 30 year olds need. They need sort of sophisticated, I mean, a little bit maybe. Right. That's what they need. Just to learn a little right then. Or say, oh, just to get like the Huh thing. Yeah. Get the other side of it. Right. Then I gotta go learn more stuff. Exactly. Exactly. Oh my God. Because I mean, you get curious what's, and you're gonna maybe do some research, you're gonna ask some questions. Yes. I think it's hard too, because we have TikTok and everyone takes everything for face value the Scopes monkey trail. Right. He was 24 years old. I know, I thought about that. I don't know if he knew truly. I know two of my kids are already 24. Right, right. I know. Like he couldn't even imagine your kids be like, I'm gonna start a revolution over this. Right. I know, but they weren't even convicted. No, but he cared enough. Yeah, I know. Like the point, it wasn't like he was getting paid off to do it. He cared enough. Right. Like, here's the deal. I tell my kids this all the time, you have to speak up when you are presented with misinformation, right? Like Right. Because I mean I think we've lost our warriors effects. Yes. Right? Like we have ai right. We have to be defenders. We Yes, exactly. Yes. It, yes. Everything at face value. Right. And I think that is a problem because we don't, no one wants to be uncomfortable anymore. And not that you're challenging and just to be a dick about it, but you want to like. Question things, right? You have to question things, be courageous. Um, because if there's anything that I think we've learned in the last gazillion years is, obviously we said earlier in the episode, history repeats itself. Yes, it does. And when I say it oh, I hate when history repeats itself. It's like, we didn't learn, I. We, we didn't take the time. We didn't understand. Absolutely. We didn't ask the questions. We haven't, you know, not to be pun, but we haven't evolved from that is, by the way, that is excellently punny. That was so ose it like wasn't even fun. Like that was actually, I have to give you the money now. Un unintentional. That was, that was excellent. Alright, fine. Sorry, I didn't mean to get you off track. Go. No, it's just I, the more I think that we pay attention and get involved and care. Yeah. Outside of our bubbles. Yeah. We have to. It's not just about us. That there could be another mindset. There could be another way, there could be, people could go backwards. People forget, you think law is always going forward. Like all the time. Yeah. Like it's getting better and better. It's not, we're in the middle of it right now. Yeah. Like there's some people like wanna take shit backwards, da da. Look, I'm not like all super crazy Mr. Progressive, like liberal, crazy man, but I'm sit somewhere in the middle. I mean, you know, like, yeah, my views generally, but i don't wanna go backwards. I think we forget, laws can regress. They don't, like we have to defend and we have to make sure that we're always speaking up. Yes, totally. And I think it's hard because people think progress is this huge pendulum swing one way. Um, no. And I mean, maybe we eventually will talk about immigration and what's happening, but there's other ways, right? But we're not willing to look at the other ways. It's just right. This one or this one, and that's it. It's like, no, no, no. There's a bunch of between. There's lot. There's a ton. And if we all truly cared, we would take the time and come together. Yeah, we would to work it out. But instead it's political. Just like this was the, right, the Scopes trial was, yeah, it's a show. It's, he said, she's like, it's disgusting. It's 10 times worth disgusting. It's 10 times worse now than it was before. Absolutely. Well, because now it's all in the palm of your hair. I know. Absolutely. Yeah. It sucks. Well, I digress. I don't know. No, but that's, but that's good. No, I'm glad. It's good that you and I even sit here and talk about it. Right. Because like most people don't even wanna talk about it. It's true. So job well done. It is true. It is true. Yeah. Alright, so maybe we should lighten the mood just a little bit because my God, we, we can go down that deeper rabbit hole of depression. We were, we were about to, we were getting. We were just about to go political. We were, we were there on the cusp. On the cusp. We were working on the edges. Um, but maybe like some fun facts fun because I'm sure that there were like some for the trial that, oh, there's fun facts. There's fun facts about everything. And by the way, if I don't have fun facts, I just make them up anyway. It doesn't matter. And I just throw it in the sort of category instead of fits and category. If you think about it though, there's always a fun fact. Of course. You know why? Because there's always something that you didn't know that makes it just a little more interesting. Yes. Except. I try to make sure the fun facts weren't already included somewhere in what we chatted about. Yes. It makes it a little hard. You go the extra mile. Very. I do, I try. It's very true. I try. Whatcha gonna do? Um, or you bury the lead. I don't know which one it is, but whatever it is, that's always the best section of her episode, so Yeah. I'm like the lady in Wyoming, she buried the by bury the, oh God. Alright, we're ready? Yep. Ready for time. Okay. Number one. I know we sort of said it already, but scopes wasn't even sure like he taught evolution. Okay. He wasn't even a biology teacher. Like we said earlier, he was a substitute teacher. He was the head coach of the football team and maybe mentioned evolution in a textbook. Maybe The whole trial was basically stage to challenge the law and generate publicity for Dayton, Tennessee. All right. It's, I know. That's great. It blows my mind. Blows my mind. I, I had, I know we already talked about that one, but I thought that was excellent. Okay. Uh, number two, the trial took place in July in Tennessee, a southern summer. Amanda, in this steamy moisty fless court room moist with like moist. I know. Moist mo. Let's make moist our order today. No, right. Amanda. There's a gazillion people in there. No air conditioning. Yeah. Gross. Gross, gross. Think of the stench. Oh my god. Okay. Um, at one point it got so hot they had to move the proceedings outside under a shady tree just to keep going outside. So nobody would die of heat stroke. I'm just saying you get hot inside a 75 degree office. Right? I'm, I'm boiling over here. No, you're crazy. Okay. Uh, you would've just died. I, you would've been one of the ones that fell over. We might need to call 9 1 1 here in a few minutes if you don't turn the air conditioning lower. Okay. Number three. It was the first trial to ever be broadcast on the radio. Much this, oh, did we mention the radio earlier? I didn't even think about the radio. Yes. Yeah, we were talking newspaper, radio. Yeah. Wgn apparently along with a few other stations carried live coverage, making it one of America's first media trials. Covered live, ever Think of it as like the OJ Simpson trials. Great-grandpa, but like more theology, right? Less bloody murder of like Nicole Fair. Right. Okay. But you know what's also crazy? What, if you think about that, like how it was just aired on the radio. Yeah. But now like for the Diddy trials. Yeah. Like people were live streaming. Oh, I know. As they were getting updates. It's nuts. Like it's nuts. Let's go. How crazy. I know how far we've come. I don't know. That's, I dunno if that's, yeah. Jink. That was so funny. Right? You owe me a Coke. Okay. Uh, number four, the Judge, judge John Ralston, thank you, uh, actually opened the trial by quoting from Genesis, uh. So much for neutrality. He quoted from Genesis in the trial about whether the Bible should influence science education. The judge opens with Genesis and Adam and Eve. What the hell is that all about? I mean, does that just not show you that there was a bias? I don't know, maybe little bit, bit of a problem. Okay. Uh, number five. William Jennings. Bryan the prosecutor, uh, work for free. Huh. He actually went so far as to refuse payment and even donated his own money to help cover the court expenses for the trial. He was that invested in defending his biblical literalism. Good for him. Fundamentalist. Okay. Good for him. Number six. Clarence Darrow tried to bring in actual scientists to explain evolution, but the judge said no on the grounds that they were too irrelevant. Their testimonies were recorded, but the jury never heard a word and they were blocked from actually going on the stand and ever testifying, like we said earlier, that's so terrible. Okay. And finally number seven. William Jennings. Brian died just five days after the trial ended. Really? Five? Yeah. Did somebody poison him? Right. So, no. Oh, conspiracy theory. Let's go. No. Okay. Hysterical. Like, listen, you're looking, you're looking for all the conspiracies. No, he passed away in his sleep on July 26th, 1925. After returning from dinner with friends, poisoned, uh, some, that's what I said. Some blamed the stress of being publicly humiliated on the stand by Darrow. Others say it was just heat exhaustion. He was 65 years old that day. Uh, when I looked it all up, they basically,, I don't wanna say they confirmed, but heat exhaustion seems to be the going conclusion. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. All right. That's all I got. I heat stroke. Heat stroke. Okay. That's it. Just like me here. We're right now. Mm-hmm. I mean, yeah. My butt is stuck to this sta right now. My, can you see my armpits right over here? Okay. Well then let's hurry up. Okay, let's hurry up. What, what is our call to action? What are we supposed to be doing? Oh, doing it. Give a quick recap so we can peel you up. Let's get outta here. Let's, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Fine. All right. So first, if this episode sparked like an existential crisis about science or faith like it did with me, um, watch Inherit the Wind again. Well. I just, I guess watch it once again. I was like, yeah, you said it again, again. Right, right. Okay. I'll watch it again. That was the famous movie based on the trial. It came out in 1960 in Star, Spencer, Tracy. So it's, I mean, it's like a fiction version of the trial. But it gets like all the big stuff. Right. So they, they had to like to had to it up, up from Hollywood. Yeah. Yeah, of course. You could also just go visit like a local museum and donate a little money to science research or thank Darwin in front of like the fossil wall or something. Like, just be cultured. Yes. Do so something different. Try something cool. Right? Like get outside your bubble. Yes. Right. Go to the lab. Brea. Tar Pits people like anything. Okay. And then just remember these important details to seem, well, sort of sophisticated. The Scopes Monkey trial wasn't about one teacher. It was about free thought. John Scopes was a 24-year-old substitute who agreed to get substitute. Substitute, agreed to get arrested, to challenge a law banning the teaching of evolution in Tennessee. The trial was basically staged by the A CLU and local leaders. It was more of a culture war than a criminal case. What also blows my mind, what is. How I feel like sometimes we are all just like pawns in a bigger ploy that we don't know. Don't get me started because my brother David would love you. No, just like in regards to this, right? Like if it was all stage and leaders were just trying to prove a point and make a ruckus and I mean, then people buy in and now everyone's all hived and now like now it's more just disco contention within the community. Yep. Versus do we not have other civilized ways that we could go about. Making change? Well, we have both. I mean, I think Phish was necessary, but I get like, well, it, to start, we can't take, like, I get your point. You can't take advantage of that because then it is a circus. Yeah. Literally. I get it. Um, but I think some of 'em, like, I mean, I get the point, I get why it's important and yes, it needed to be and easy to be thought out, challenged and whatever. But is there not a better way? Than it being a circus. I, I would agree with that. Or manipulating people's emotions. Correct. I neighbors hating each other fine line. Yes. I agree. And maybe I feel that way. 'cause we are in today's political, I don't know. You're right. No, no, no, no. That's like, that's a, that was a legit add in right there. I like that. Okay. Number two, the real fight was over who controls public education At its core, the trial wasn't Bible versus biology at all. It was about who gets to decide what kids are taught. In public schools. And that question, like we were talking about earlier, is still relevant today. Whether it's about evolution, sex ed, book bans, it is, I don't give a shit what it's, and I lived through it with my children. You're in the middle of it, so let's go. Number three, scopes was found guilty, but still made history. He was fined a hundred dollars. That's about $1,800 today. But the trial expose the absurdity of the law and sparked the beginning of a national conversation. It took until 1967. For the law to be repealed. And in 1968 for the Supreme Court to finally shut that shit down nationwide. Thank you very much. Just a little bit of time. Uh, number four. It was America's first media trial and was broadcast live on the radio. Journalists poured in headlines went wild, and someone even brought a chimpanzee named Joe Mendy to the courthouse. We love you, Joe. Shout out Poor Joe. Rip. And number five, finally, it's still relevant today. Just insert issue here, right? The question remains the same, regardless of the issue du jour. Where do we draw the line between education and ideology, Amanda? Well, and there you have a fellow listeners. It was a deep dive into the sweaty, theatrical, and surprisingly relevant world of the Scopes Monkey trial from courtroom chaos to cultural identity crisis. It turns out this 1925 showdown wasn't just about evolution, it was about power free thought, and who gets to decide what our kids learn? And we're still going through it today. We are. If we did our job today, hopefully you're walking away a bit more sophisticated. With a sharper grasp of constitutional drama. A fun factor too about monkey mascots and a better understanding of why we're still arguing about education a hundred years later. This trial had everything, folks, science, religion, politics, public shaming, and even a chimp in a three piece suit. But really at the heart of it, the Scopes Monkey trial reminds us that education isn't just about facts, it's about values. So if you like this episode, make sure to subscribe. Leave us a review and share it with someone who still thinks clarence Darrow was a Supreme Court justice. No shame. We're all just learning here. So until next time, don't forget the PF for knowledge isn't new and progress takes courage and sometimes a little heat. So stay curious, stay civil, and question everything. Now go out there and teach someone something true. Preferably without getting arrested.
