Episode Transcript
Welcome back to sort of sophisticated, the podcast where we try to help each other get more cultured or should I dare say, educated Or how about just refined? Like refined ish. Like ish, right. Whatever. I'm Pete. Hello, everybody. And with me always is Amanda. Who's ishing me already. I Am I always issue you damn issue? Hello there everyone. I got news for you. Oh you do. Yeah Okay, so I think our podcast is gaining some traction. I think you're lying. No way Listen, I was at a wedding over the weekend and I was in line At the bar and I got to talking to some guys and anyway, they asked me what I did for a living and I told them I do this podcast and they totally promised they would listen. So, I don't know. I think maybe we are signing autographs as soon, Amanda. I'm just saying. Okay, hold on, hold on, hold on. Let me get this straight. You cornered some dudes at an open bar, you gave them your full elevator pitch, and now you somehow think we're famous? Because I hate to break it to you, they were probably drunk, and drunk promises do not count. Okay, you suck. First of all, they were only partly drunk, okay? It was like 8 o'clock. It wasn't even that late, okay? And besides, you don't know their network reach. They might have a huge network. We could go viral. This could be crazy. Have a little faith, Amanda. Oh, I have faith. I have faith that when they walked away, they immediately forgot you and the name of our podcast. But you go ahead and start practicing your autograph, little signature over there, just in case. Um, why do I subject myself to this every week? This hate? This venom that you spit at me. What is this? It's not hate and venom, it's just a dose of reality. And you love me, so, mm. Okay, um, now that I think about it, you're kind of right. I know I am. Okay, but it's cool that people were nice like that. Like, I mean, for a minute they seemed like they were genuinely interested, okay? Okay, they may have been. But you'll never know. Alright, whatever. I was just trying to, like, pep us up and say we're gaining traction, okay? Oh, don't even worry. Somebody needs to be the cheerleader here. Stop it. We are gaining traction. Because we have an awesome episode that's totally going to go viral today. Oh, I love the attitude. Well, lay it on me. What is it? Okay, so today we're going to jump on the true crime, like, bandwagon. Oh, God. Kill me now. No, no, no, no. I thought I was excited for a minute. No, no, no, no. You should be excited. But it's not how you think. So instead of, like, doing an episode on, like, a specific event or a specific killer. What? Yeah, like. Gabby Pepito and everything out there right now. I know, poor Gabby. Oh my god. Rib. Um, but everyone's talking about her. Yeah, they are. And it's driving me nuts. Okay. I don't, I don't know if I want to do this episode. Okay, well you do. What are we doing? Tell me what we're doing then. Why is this so cool? So it's not an actual murder case, but we're gonna do it about the psychology behind it all, which is totally up your alley. So that's why I know you're gonna love it. Like, what do you mean? Well, it's kind of like, we're going to investigate why are we all so obsessed with it in the first place? Like, how did we get to a point where people unwind at night listening to murder podcasts instead of meditation music? Oh, shit. Okay. I kind of creepy, but we're going to get there. I kind of like this, though. No, so seriously, like, one of my best friends, Mariko, I think you know Mariko. Yeah. Yeah, okay. So she totally does this. Like, I don't get it. She's out of control. I know I'm totally generalizing here right now, but like, why does it seem like Your generation specifically like millennials in particular are so obsessed like if a new crime documentary drops on Netflix You guys are like having a fucking watch party. We totally are. It's really weird, but i'm gonna explain all of it I swear. All right. So do you just want to jump in or go for it? Let's go all right So if we're gonna jump in we're gonna name this episode the cold of crime, why we love our true crime stories, and how they've taken over pop culture, and whether our obsession is totally normal, or just a little concerning? Um, I'd say probably both. But I got a question, because I haven't asked this in a long time. Why is this going to make me more cultured? Because getting cultured isn't just about fine art or philosophy. It's also about understanding why humans are the way they are. And true crime reveals our psychological wiring and it's sort of a window into our human nature. And how our survival instincts work. Like, why do we fear certain things? How does our brain process danger? Why do we crave mystery? There are universal, deep rooted human questions that are kind of mind blowing. We also love solving puzzles and studying true crime kind of shapes our ability to analyze evidence, detect bias, and think critically. It's kind of a little bit of everything. Just like sprinkle here, sprinkle there. I kind of love this. Yeah. Okay, I'm getting on the bandwagon here. Brings me back to my college psychology classes. Total PTSD, though. Um, before we start. Uh, word of the day please. Alright, well what do you got? Uh, ok, so today's word of the day is flummoxed. I'm sorry, what? Flummoxed? Flummoxed. It reminds me of like a Dr. Seuss character in a book, that I used to read to my kids, like The Flummoxed Mr. Fox Wore Polka Dot Socks. Or like something like that. Oh my god. Okay, you just absolutely pulled that out of your ass because that's not a real Dr. Seuss person. I mean, probably not, but like, you know, your pun. Okay, but I love the way you do that every time. You always like make up something about the word of the day. I think that's actually hysterical. Okay. So, it actually means to be completely confused or bewildered. Alright, so like me most of the time. Uh, not always, well, I guess sort of. Um, but like, just the sports ones really. Well, and I guess anyone with a movie reference. Well, okay, and I guess some of the history ones too. Are we done yet? Okay, yeah, okay, I think so. But yeah, you're right, you are flummoxed things that make me flummoxed, can we start talking about our topic yet? Okay, Alright, let's go, I'm ready to flummox my way through it all anyway. Okay. Can we just start with my whole premise like why do people especially women love true crime so much like Am I being sexist and generalizing way too much? Like give me give me the details. Okay. Well first off. No, actually you're not Thank God because I know the one time the one time But you do have to realize this isn't anything new or anything like Our fascination with true crime goes way back. I think like public executions Do you remember those? Have you ever witnessed one? Um, okay, not first hand, but, uh, continue. I don't know where this is going. Okay, so back in the day people used to watch public executions like they were going to the movies. Right? I totally looked this up, I swear. They used to bring snacks, people sold souvenirs. It was an event. Like a whole city would shut down for it. No, that's bullshit! No way! I'm looking it up. No, I don't believe you. Okay, I already did. Trust me, but go ahead. Fine, go on. I'm still doing this though. That's insane. Just keep going, go. So basically, public executions were like in full swing since, I don't know, like The beginning of civilization and then sometime in the 1800s the media gets involved Because that's when the penny press came along and we were able to mass produce things for super cheap and something called penny Dreadfolds started to take off. Okay, wait, wait, wait, hold on. Hold on. First of all, I just looked this up Okay, you were totally right people used to absolutely sell souvenirs At public executions. I don't lie. What the hell? I don't lie. I'm not level 7. Okay, listen to this. In medieval Europe, and 18th, 19th century England, public executions were a major social event. And vendors would capitalize by selling souvenirs. They include pieces of hangman's rope. People believed it had magical or good luck properties. Printed pamphlets or broadsheets. Whatever the fuck that is. These were often sensationalized last words of the condemned or crime stories. Basically like the tabloids of the time. Blood soaked handkerchiefs. Some people would soak cloth in the executed person's blood, believing it held healing power. This is insane. I mean, you feel like this is any different than from today. Miniature gallows or guillotine models for kids to play with. What the F is going on? And locks of the condemned's hair. Creepy, but very real. Oh my god. Amanda, this seems more like a carnival than an execution. What the hell is wrong with people? No, it seems like we are all just one serial killer. I'm sort of, this freaked me out. Like I don't even, I can't even believe I just chat GPT'd that. Okay, I told you. I told you it's all true. Wait, I also have another question. Okay. What's the, you said Penny Dreadful came along. What's a Penny Dreadful? I never heard of that. Like we're five minutes into this episode. By the way, I'm totally flummoxed already. Well played. I don't even know what's happening. Well played. Okay. Penny Dreadfuls were these cheap little fiction booklets that were popular in Britain in like the 1800s. They were called penny dreadfuls because they cost a penny and they were filled with dreadful aka violent stories Think of them as like the victorian era version of true crime tabloids. Got it. Okay. Okay. So they were mostly focused on crime or horror and like grizzly murders or serial killers. And sometimes we're even based on real crimes that actually happened. So serialized, meaning readers could buy a new installment. each week. Oh, super creepy. Yeah. Oh, so kind of like Netflix releasing episodes like on the weekly today. Exactly. But just way slower. Yeah. Okay. But believe it or not, they totally helped shape the whole horror genre today. Like Dracula, Sweeney Todd, or even Sherlock Holmes. And all of his detective stories, like I could keep going this list goes on and on. Yes, but I love Johnny Depp and Sweeney Todd. Let's go. I mean, he was pretty spectacular. I mean, Johnny Depp. He's one of those actors. I know he just he's he's ageless, timeless, all that stuff. I know Johnny. Okay, minus Amber Heard. Okay. Yeah. So then All right. Move up. Oh, let me be you for a second. Can you hurry up through the history because I'm bored already. Let's go. You are not bored because this shit's interesting. Okay, go. Go, go, go. Okay, okay. Okay, so then by the 1900s you have the whole rise of the detective stories thanks to Agatha Christie and of course Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and Sherlock Holmes, but like asterisk really it came out in the like late 1800s But got really popular in the 1900s and then you had like yellow journalism Started to hit the scene where newspapers started sensationalizing crimes in order to attract readers It's like famous stories of Jack the Ripper and Bonnie and Clyde. Wait, wait, wait. Why was it called yellow journalism? I mean, it's because my people wrote it. I'm just kidding. Actually, that has absolutely nothing to do with it. or with true crime. It was called yellow journalism because of a popular comic strip character called the yellow kid and a rivalry between the two biggest owned by Pulitzer and Hearst and they used the comic strip to sensationalize stories about working class life. So, also asterisk, you know, the Hertz, we need to go to Hertz Castle. We do. Just because. I know. What do you mean, just because? Because it's excellent. Have you been there? I've never been there. You've never been there? I've never. I've been there a dozen times. Maybe I'd learn a little bit more about Hearst besides the fact that it started William Randolph Hearst. Well, there we go. Badass mofo. Here we go. Alright. Okay, so then we're going to fast forward to television. Of course we're going to fast forward to television. Of course, because it changed the world. Like, as we're realizing while doing this podcast, TV exploded everything. It did. So by the 1980s, you had the whole start of America's Most Wanted. Oh my gosh, I grew up on it. And then Unsolved Mysteries also grew up on it. I mean, there was Murder, She Wrote, all these things. And people were just out of their minds for it. And that brings us to today, where now we have true crime podcasts, Netflix docuseries, and women who fall asleep to murder mysteries are basically just gonna take over the world. Okay. Yeah. So that last part like really confuses me, right? Like what? I still haven't figured out how people sleep to the Dateline guy talking about how some guy like stabbed his wife in the heart 79 times. I mean people fell asleep to America's Most Wanted when there's actual killers out there. Oh my god, fine. Okay, well it's basically like ASMR at this point. It's like super soothing. Oh my god, that totally, ASMR totally reminds me. Uh, three men and a baby? Okay, I know. You have no idea what I'm talking about. Humor me. Can, uh, Isn't that with Charlie Sheen? No, not even close. Okay, 80's movie. This is my point. 80's movie where three friends, Tom Selleck, Steve Guttenberg, and Ted Danson, right, like all good looking dudes during their time. Okay, they're all old now. I get it. Um, Ted Danson, Ted Danson from Murders in the Building? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, so they, yeah, he was in Cheers, like Ted Danson. Yeah, yeah. He was a good looking dude. Okay. So they're left to raise this baby on their own and have absolutely, like, no idea, like, what the hell they're doing. Thank you to Nancy Travis, who has played, like, the mom. Okay, anyway. In one scene, Tom Selleck is trying to make the baby fall asleep and he's got nothing to read. So he starts reading from a Sports Illustrated magazine to the baby about how some boxer beat the shit out of some guy. But he's doing it in a baby voice. So the baby starts falling asleep. So he's like all, As the boxer was raining blows down onto his opponent's skull, blood started dripping all over the place. It's Amanda, comedy gold, okay? And I just remember like Steve Guttenberg comes in and freaks out and Tom Selleck doesn't even change his voice. He just goes, It doesn't matter what I read. It's the tone I use. She can't understand me anyway. It's totally brilliant, and it reminds me exactly what you mean with the whole stupid ASMR thing, like falling asleep to. So the husband then stabbed the wife 79 times in the chest before he killed her. Do you know Trent did this with our dog? Trent killed the dog. He killed the dog. That is terrible. He did this with the dog. So, we were trying to prove to my sister that it's all about tone. Right? Oh, I could say anything. Yes. And it worked. Right? Oh, I've done this all. Yes. So he went up to the dog. This is hysterical. Yes. And he was like, he's like, Oh my gosh, I love you so much. He just like yelled, right? And she literally piddled. Right. Because she freaked out, right? Yeah. And then she was like, I hate you. Right. I really hope that you get, I hate you so much, I wanna kill you right now. Yes, I know. And then she was like, hi. Hi, That this is hysterical. I I'd love that. That's a good, that was a good story. Okay. Okay. So back on track. Okay. Like, so you kind of explained the whole historical fascination with true crime, like, I get it, but like why millennial women specifically and true crime, like what's going on? I mean, that's a great question, and I already did all my research on this, and I came up with five main theories. Well, I mean, I guess they're not really theories. They are backed by science. Sorta. And each one is rooted in some version of psychology, or social conditioning, or emotional engagement, or something that's actually really important. So I'm totally gonna be into this. Of course. Let's go. Why do you think I picked this topic? Okay. Alright. Okay. But really, actually, there are more than five. Of course there are. But I'm just doing the ones that I thought were legit enough for the podcast and to keep it short and sweet. That's how you roll. Go for it. Okay. Okay, okay. So number one. Survival Instincts and Risk Assessment. Alright, so I'm gonna go a little bit long winded and homeschool mom on you. Okay, I'm ready. Okay. I'll give you your space. Okay Bear with me. Okay. So true crime serves as a form of something called vicarious learning where listeners mentally prepare for worst case scenarios. So women in particular are socialized to be hyper aware of personal safety and true crime reinforces those instincts by identifying patterns of danger and red flags in human behavior. Okay, I looked this up. Research suggests that exposure to what you call threat based narratives help people feel more control over the chaos of the world. If we can learn the patterns of killers, we think. In quotation marks, we can avoid becoming victims. Um, that makes a lot of freaking sense. We always have to be in control. I never thought about it that way. That's also why we all have massive anxiety. And this is one way for us to control our anxiety about getting killed. This is excellent. Okay, number two, empathy and emotional processing. So if you ever listen to True Crime I don't. I know. But if you were It normally focuses on the victim, not the killer. Uh, that kind of sounds like a good thing. It really is, and that's my whole point. It helps make it way more of an emotionally engaging and cathartic experience. And no surprise, women tend to score higher on the empathy and emotional intelligence scale, making us more invested in things like justice and closure, and just understanding the whole human impact of crime. Unfair, but totally true. Yes, but the world is unfair. I know, I got it. And a lot of women feel drawn to true crime because it like exposes all the flaws in our justice system, all the misogyny in investigations, all the wrongful conviction, it just sucks all over. And listening to cases being solved, or as they're trying to solve them, it gives women a sense of justice, even in a world where justice can feel out of reach a lot of the time. And play that forward a little more and it creates a sense of connection where we can then turn real life tragedies into serious cautionary tales that start to feel deeply personal. Shit, that's real, Amanda. I never thought of it that way. This is making a lot of sense. I'm like way more or less flummoxed now than I was just a minute ago. Is that two? Right, I know, but all joking aside, like seriously, this is some serious deep shit. Like I never, like, thought about the psychology and you know I love the psychology of, like, this is a great episode. Okay, um, number three, go. Okay, number three. Brain stuff, more sophisticatedly known as cognitive engagement or puzzle solving for us only sort of sophisticated learners over here. So our brain loves solving puzzles and true crime is just a giant real world puzzle. Women, especially ones into psychology or social dynamics, totally love analyzing motives or dissecting criminal behavior. Or maybe even just questioning our justice system failures in general. It's a total dopamine hit. And, if you remember from our Intro to Psychology episode, we all love our dopamine hits. And figuring stuff out or trying to solve a case mentally reinforces the obsession and gives us more dopamine. Dude, put me on the couch! This is some serious psychological shit going on right now. We gotta start a true crime podcast. I didn't realize there was so much behind all this. There is. I don't know if I could do that. But, yes. You're not kidding, dude. Alright. It's also heavy, right? It is very heavy, but you're giving me like real Like, real real here. I like this. Okay, um, okay. What's the last one? Well, I'm actually on number four. Because there's five, so we're gonna go with number four. Okay, I'm all flummoxed. Leave me alone. You just had to do that, didn't you? Stop it. You know how I roll. He just wants all his money in the pot. Okay, so number four. Um, so it's about controlled exposure to fear. Wait, what? Controlled exposure to fear? What is that? You made that up. I totally did not make it up. That's not even a thing. I already told you I'm not a level 7 liar. Okay, listen. What? True crime triggers the whole fight or flight response. You know that. Um, I live my life by it. Of course I know that. Okay. So, true, true. But, to anyone who doesn't know, the idea behind fight or flight is that the body has an automatic survival response to perceived dangers. Triggering a rush of adrenaline that prepares you to either confront the threat to fight or escape it flight Dude, totally brings me back to the psych days again. Yes Totally. So in true crime, the same response kicks in, but in a safe, controlled environment, allowing listeners to process fear without any actual risks. Thus, the term controlled exposure to fear. Got it? Uh, I got it. Thank you very much, Dr. Houston. Oh, if only I had those letters, um, and moving on, this is linked to something called the terror management theory. Okay, holy shit. Well, you settled out already. Should I say it again? I'm flummoxed again. I mean, I'm flummoxed again. What is it? Right, exactly. We picked a good one. What is terror management theory? Uh, terror management theory is a theory that suggests engage with threatening content. as a way to subconsciously manage their own fears about mortality. And I quote, by observing danger from a distance, listeners feel a sense of power over their own vulnerabilities. Okay. So like, like watching a horror movie, but like then applying it to real life. Uh huh. Exactly. Last but not least. Number five, who doesn't love a good mystery? Am I right? Oh, totally. I mean, humans are just wired for storytelling. Uh, yes we are. Yeah, Como U. And true crime is just the ultimate whodunit. Oh my god, totally. Uh, it's why I love Knives Out so much. Do you remember Knives Out? Absolutely, yes. Okay, beautiful. Okay, speaking of, there was actually something called the zeigarnik effect, which I never heard of until I researched for this episode. I need to know what the Zeigarnik is. Effect is well, it basically just suggests that we hate unsolved mysteries so much We will keep listening until we get the answers. We need we just can't let it go ever. It's like the ultimate addiction Oh my god, that's so awesome. Like let's go. Okay, so wait if I'm picking up what you're putting down here True crime isn't just entertainment, which I thought it was it's sort of a mix of survival training emotional catharsis Intellectual engagement? Yeah. And, uh, a psychological thrill ride all rolled into one. All in one, and that's why it's so addictive. Um, so, millennial women aren't obsessed with murder like I thought they were. Which, by the way, scared the shit out of me, I'm not gonna lie. They're really just obsessed with understanding danger, justice, and the whole complexity of human behavior. So basically it's like, self defense training, but like, on the couch in your pajamas instead of at the gym. Well, maybe like at the gym because I listen when I work out. Holy crap, you do? Totally. It's like super motivating to listen. But you also tune it out and it kills time. Oh my god. You just get invested. Kill me. Okay, wait. Like. First of all, that's a whole thing, is that you listen to podcasts while you're at the gym. I have to listen to music. But wait, okay, don't get mad at me. What? Okay, so technically, you didn't explain why it's millennial women. You just explained why it's women in general, and I want to know why it's millennial women. Okay, okay, well, specifically Millennials is really easy. Well, oh, okay. Thank you, Dr. Houston. Why? Because it's just about when we grew up and what was going on around the time. You gotta remember, millennial women were raised at a time when fear based media was taking over the world. Podcasts and streaming were just coming out. And our anxiety levels were through the roof because of all of the screwed up economic instability everywhere, including our households, because mom and dad were losing their jobs. Remember the Millennial Midlife Crisis episode? Same, same. It was a perfect storm. So true crime fits perfectly here. See, Older generations were raised on TV. And I'm not saying that they don't like true crime or anything, but everything was less digital. So they're really not as obsessed like we are. And And Gen Z women are way more into short form, so their attention span is just not the same. Okay, but like, as they grow up, that might change, right? I mean, maybe, we'll see. Time will tell. But they also didn't grow up during 9 11. So, you there's more there. Okay, so, alright, so, fair. I mean, you answered the millennial question. We got that, we got wars, we got, you know, rise of shootings, all the things. There's a lot going on there. Okay, um, okay, I have another question. Okay. Okay. Um, I love how you always tell me. Of course you do. Yes. Go ahead. And then, right. I know, like, see, now she's on the other foot. Now I'm the one with all the questions. Okay. Are, like, are all these women, like, sensationalizing all this a little too much? I mean, I get the whole psychology behind what you just explained. But, like, if we feed into it. Aren't we sort of kind of screwing with the victim and the victim's family by sort of subscribing to it in the first place? I mean, if we're like casting Zac Efron to play Ted Bundy in a docuseries, I'd say like we kind of are like a little bit. All right. I mean, okay, hold on. So I think there's two different things at play here. If you're talking about all the Netflix stuff and the quote unquote famous cases, then yes, totally. I agree with you 100%. That's just Hollywood looking to cash in. Right? I think it sucks. I don't subscribe to that, as you put it. I mean, in the case of Ted Bundy, he literally had women showing up to his trial, flirting with him, and sending him love letters. And all these women saying he was just misunderstood, or complex, and they're just all batshit crazy. But, if you're Thank God you agree with me. Okay, good. But if you're talking about true crime podcasts and other streaming that's less Hollywood, about everyday people, then no. Remember earlier I said they normally focus more on the victim. Yes. Well, the good ones anyways. So, here's how I decide. If they focus on the killer, the investigation, and the chase, and treat the victim as a side character in their own story, then I'm out. But on the other hand, if they describe the person murdered, and explain their life, and contributions, and you barely hear anything about the murderer, or You know, just a little bit, then I'm in. Because they are appropriately considering the victim and the victim's family in their story. Okay, so I love that, but like, then how am I supposed to know that before I listen? Like, I, I, I just have to Yeah, that one's a little bit harder and it took me a while to figure out. It kind of all comes down to how intentional the podcast hosts are about everything. So I think you gotta listen for a few things. Like one if they're talking about how the victim lived their life and how they contributed instead of just talking about how they died That's a good sign Another one is if they talk about the impact on the victim's families or on the community in general instead of just romanticizing the criminal And the criminal's behavior. Okay, that makes sense And I guess maybe the last one would be instead of treating cases like puzzles to be solved They focus on the why the crime happened and what we can learn from it Then I think you're sort of safe and probably have a good podcast. You should listen to okay so, so sort of like less let's explain every gruesome detail and more like here's why this case matters. Absolutely. Yes, but that's all I have. So, do you got anything else or are we gonna start Fun Facts? Oh no, this was your episode. This is good. I'm fascinated. I learned so much shit. Like, I might even start turning it into, like, true crime podcasts now. I'm ready to go. Alright, well, I guess I'll just roll into Fun Facts then. Alright, like, Full disclosure here though, I don't have anything specific to like, what you just did. Like all the psychology behind why Millennials listen. Cause like, you basically just, like, railed me right there. So I'm just gonna do like, some stuff on like, just true crime in general. Like, like fun facts on true crime. Is that okay? Okay, fair, fair, fair. Go ahead. Okay, alright, okay, number one. The term serial killer is actually pretty new. Despite it existing for centuries, the term serial killer wasn't coined until the 1970s by some FBI agent named Robert Ressler. Go Bobby Ress! Before that, they were just called chain killers, or repeat offenders. So technically, Jack the Ripper wasn't officially a serial killer. At least, not in his own time. That's crazy. I know. He was just a chain killer. That's kind of funny. Okay. Uh, number two, did you know that the FBI once tried to catch a criminal using, get this, astrology? So in the 1960s, during the hunt for the Zodiac Killer, law enforcement agencies Who also was not a serial killer? Technically. Like, he only killed five people. Well, he claims he's killed like 40 people like whatever but like they only have proof that he killed five. Um, anyway Law enforcement agencies actually consulted an astrologer to predict his next move spoiler alert. It didn't work. They never caught him to this day. Wait, what? Yeah, they never caught him. The Zodiac Killer? Yeah, he died They think he they think they somebody thinks they figured it out and they think he now died I have not listened to the Zodiac Killer podcast. I think I'm gonna have to now. Yeah, no never caught him Um okay, number three, Ted Bundy, we were talking about him earlier, he was the king of fan mail. Yes, women wanted to throw their panties at him. Yeah, I can't believe that, right? Like, talk about like, he was like the serial killer version of Elvis. Okay, so believe it or not, some serial killers developed this cult like following, and Bundy was one of the best of them. He got love letters, marriage proposals, and even, shall I say, some explicit fan mail while on death row. Like, nudes, Amanda. I told you people wanted to throw his panties at him. And, super fun fact, he actually married one of his groupies, Carol Ann Boone, in the middle of his murder trial. Yeah, I don't know why anyone would ever do that. Dude. Send nudes or Miriam? Both all the things. Okay. Well if I'm being sophisticated here, uh, It's because of something called Hybristophilia a condition where people are sexually attracted to violent criminals. I feel like look that up They need to go to like therapy. Yeah, I think she was I think like what you said, she's batshit crazy Hybristophilia or not. She's crazy. You know what? I think she was She was flummoxed. Okay, um, number four. Okay, take a guess. When do you think one of the first true crime bestsellers was written? I don't know like 1850? Uh, not even close. 1557. No way. Yes. Okay. Yeah, I looked this up. I know a book called the Newgate calendar based on criminals held at London's Newgate prison became one of the earliest examples of true crime literature that we know of today. In fact, It was so popular that people believed reading it could make you a better criminal. It was kind of like the first true crime podcast in 1557. I mean, 500 years ago! Not a podcast. Well, whatever. It was written. Okay, you get the vibes. I feel the vibes. You know, they were, they were, you know, like, what were they doing? But true crime fannies. Yeah, they were totally. Let's go. Um, okay, finally, number five. How about this one? A jury once ruled that a parrot Like a parrot? Like a, yeah, a parrot. Okay. A murder witness. What? In 2015. Oh, I can see why. In 2015, a parrot named Bud, you're not going to believe this, repeatedly repeated the phrase don't fucking shoot after its owner was murdered. So the judge allowed the parrot's words as evidence because he believed it may have repeated the victim's last moments. Did he get a conviction? I have no idea. I didn't get that far. Oh, you're not that sophisticated. Come on. See? Justice, Pete. Justice. I'm terrible. Okay, that's all I got. Alright, well, I'd like to say thanks for those killer fun facts. You hysterical. Wow. It took you all episode to get there. I was waiting for it. Alright, is it time to wrap up the episode? Cuz if it is, you gotta hit us with the outro because my brain is full of historical murder trivia, and I'm kind of ready for a break. Sum it up. Let's call to action this thing. Are we ready? Okay, first things first, I have to admit. Um. I'm totally getting into this thing. Like, I'm not binging all this shit or starting a murder board or anything, but I'm kidding. You might. You might. I'm in the club. Okay? Welcome. Okay. Um, if you really want to go next level, I got a few things for you. Okay. First, visit a true crime museum. Did you know they have one in LA? I do, and it's real, real weird. Okay, I haven't gone. The Museum of Death. Yeah. It's got everything a freak, like, true crime geek would want. It's a lot. Like, crime scene photos, autopsy stuff. It's a lot. Like, serial killer artifacts. Like, it's glorious. Amanda. I don't know. Should we go? I, I don't know, I might need to take some of my anxiety meds. The Museum of Death in L. A., people. Okay, um, second, take a true crime tour. You got the Jack the Ripper Tour in London, England, of course. The Lizzie Borden House in Fall River, Massachusetts. And if you want something closer to home, like, I'm sure you can find, like, ghost or crime tours, like, almost anywhere nowadays. Like, they have one in Catalina. I took one once. There's a really good one on the Queen Mary. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, that's, that's fun stuff. Um, or if you really want to go all in, attend a true crime convention. That's a little much. Yeah, I didn't even know that was a thing until I researched, right. Okay, it's something called CrimeCon. Yep. And it's where a bunch of fans get together with true crime experts, investigators, and podcasters and like talk all about their freaky true crime obsession. Um, mark your calendars people, september 5th through 7th in Denver, Colorado. Maybe, uh, maybe Carol Ann Boone will be there. Like Ted Bundy's wife. We could meet her. What do you think? That would be hysterical. Okay, um, alright, finally. Here are the boiled down sort of true crime facts to casually drop into your next conversation when we want to sound Effortlessly sophisticated. Uh, number one, true crime has been around forever. Before Netflix, before podcasts, before even newspapers. People were swapping stories about outlaws and criminals. One of the earliest true crime bestsellers? The Newgate Calendar. A collection of 18th century criminal biographies that basically served as the dateline of its time. Number two, it's not just entertainment. It shapes real cases. The unsolved mysteries TV show? It helps solve actual crimes. The serial podcast led to a murder conviction being overturned. True crime is fascinating, but sometimes it's also justice in action. Number three, we're wired for it. Psychologists say our obsession with true crime stories is tied to survival instincts. Learning about danger, deception, operate makes us feel more prepared, even if we're just sipping coffee in our pajamas while watching forensic files. And finally, not all true crime is the same. Sure isn't. Some stories are exploitative. Others are deeply investigative. There's a difference between sensationalizing tragedy and exposing injustice. The best true crime doesn't gawk at the crime. It asks why it happened. And that's it. You're officially ready to justify your true crime binge. Solve some crimes, people. Alright, and there you have it, fellow listeners. Your Crash Course in Why We Just Can't Get Enough of True Crime. The next time someone gives you side eye for binging yet another murder documentary, you can hit them with actually did you know true crime taps into our survival instincts and helps us process fear in a safe way? Boom. Instant justification. I still can't. Are you still like, just, you blew my mind. It's true. Like with this whole thing. I think it's. You can be smarter. I have to say like this, this episode, you absolutely killed it. Like I'm actually interested now because of what you did. Job well done. Because true crime isn't just about shocking details and eerie storytelling. It's psychology, justice, and history all wrapped up in one darkly fascinating package. So if we've done our job right today, you're leaving sorta sophisticated, armed with enough true crime knowledge to impress at your next get together, or at the very least, justify why you fall asleep to podcasts about serial killers. And if you've enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with anyone who loves mystery, psychology, or just learning cool shit. Until next time, stay curious, stay skeptical, and maybe just lock your doors at night. Oh, good ending. Lock your doors. Dun, dun, duuuuun.
