Episode Transcript
Peter B: [00:00:00] so people suck, Amanda. Seriously.
Amanda H: Why? What happened now?
Peter B: Okay, so a few weeks ago, some idiot stole a statue of the Hiroshima bombing survivor, Sadako Sasaki, which has stood for almost 40 years, mind you, at Peace Park up in Seattle, Washington.
Amanda H: They had a statue up there? I didn't know that. Kind of a cool tribute. I
Peter B: know, right? I agree, I didn't know either.
Amanda H: But someone stole it?
Peter B: Someone stole it. They just cut the legs right off.
Amanda H: What?
Peter B: Yeah.
Amanda H: Why?
Peter B: Some dumbass. I don't know. So this statue, officially named Sadako and the Thousand Paper Cranes, was erected in 1990.
As a symbol of peace and unity, because we felt bad for killing a bunch of people to end the war, it's a statue of a Japanese girl, Sadako, who actually survived mind you, the 1945 Hiroshima atomic bomb during World War II. And it's actually a sad story because after she was burned by the bomb blast, she ended up getting leukemia from all the nuclear fallout after the bombing. So basically as she was dying in the hospital, she folds a thousand paper cranes as a way to [00:01:00] demonstrate her hope.
So after she died 45 years later, they erect a statue in Seattle and now hundreds of children visit the park each year. And bring folded origami paper cranes to the statue to show their hope for peace in the world. Which I think is awesome. So, I have no idea why some idiot would steal the statue. But basically they like, cut her body off at the base and just ran away with it somewhere.
So like, the manhunt is on.
Amanda H: I have so many feelings about this. One, so beautiful that there's a statue for the paper cranes. But two, that somebody would steal it. Do such a heinous act that's terrible
Peter B: for why
Amanda H: I don't know but I'm also really sad now
Peter B: Yeah, this is gonna be a sad episode.
Amanda H: Oh, man.
Peter B: It is
Amanda H: so though.
I probably know the answer already . What does stealing a statue have to do with being cultured and curious?
Peter B: Well, today's episode technically isn't about stealing the statue. It's about why we did what we did back in 1945 when we dropped the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki to end World War II.
And to keep it really brief, we need to never forget [00:02:00] because we need to prevent things like this from ever happening again. We have to take our moral responsibilities seriously and consider the ethical consequences that come with huge scientific advancements we're making. And we have to understand the impacts of those decisions on future generations, or we're going to be in some big trouble. So
August 6th is the official day we remember. There's two bombings we'll talk about in a little bit, but August 6th.
Hey everyone, welcome to sort of sophisticated, a podcast rooted in becoming more cultured and curious where we endeavor to suspend judgment, expand our worldview, and learn to appreciate varying perspectives and values,
Amanda H: but really it's a show where we hope to enlighten anyone who cares on topics that might make them more interesting and well versed humans and just dangerous enough to hold their own in this sophisticated world, sort of.
Peter B: And today we'll be talking a little boom and gloom, Amanda, the dropping of the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
A topic heavier than the B 29 Superfortress loaded with atomic bombs itself, [00:03:00] unfortunately. Because nothing says comedy gold to me like a good old fashioned nuclear apocalypse. So buckle up and prepare for a blast from the past as we navigate the mushroom cloud of history with a sprinkle of humor to lighten this load.
Oh my god, I hope this works.
Amanda H: Well, I mean, if anyone can do it, it's gonna have to be you. But if it doesn't work, I'm not saving you. You're kinda on your own on this one. But, I am gonna pick our word of the day today.
Peter B: You are?
Amanda H: Yep.
Peter B: Go!
Amanda H: It's gonna be Meldrop.
Peter B: Mel drop.
Amanda H: Yep. And our challenge is to work this word into this podcast somewhere and make it seem like we meant to.
Peter B: Okay. But, uh, what the hell is a Mel drop?
Amanda H: Well, a Mel drop is a drop of mucus on the tip of the nose, usually produced by a cold or other virus.
Peter B: Oh shit. That happens to me all the time. I never knew it had a sophisticated name. I thought it was just called snot.
Amanda H: Yeah, I mean, it's kind of the same thing, but it's all about location really.
So when it's on the tip of your nose, then it's a Mel drop.
Peter B: Okay, so wait, I have a question.
Amanda H: !Yep.
Peter B: So what if it's [00:04:00] like, what if it's just up your nose? Is it then is it just snot?
Amanda H: Either that or on the tissue already.
Peter B: Okay. Oh, this is going to be awesome. Okay. Let's go. I got this.
Amanda H: Okay. But before you get all neurotic and try to squeeze it in somewhere, I need some background and context on Hiroshima and Nagasaki so I can understand what's going on here.
Peter B: Okay. All right. Let's go.
Amanda H: Let's go.
Peter B: Okay. So in order to understand, like how America ended up dropping bombs, we got to start at the beginning. Sorry. So we got to go back before we go forward. So first there was this like giant explosion and some fiery cosmic shit going on. Then the earth cooled and the dinosaurs came, but then this big asteroid hit and
Amanda H: what are you doing?
Not that far
Peter B: back?
Amanda H: Oh my gosh, come on.
Peter B: Okay, got it. Okay.
I'll fast forward. Prepare to fast forward. Okay. So it's the late 1930s and basically Germany is still pretty sour about all the shit they had to give back and pay for when like World War I ended and when they signed the Treaty of Versailles. So Hitler decides he's going to overturn all the post World War I agreements and reclaim all his lost territories and [00:05:00] basically wants to expand the shit out of Germany to show everyone he's a badass and that Germany should have won World War I in the first place.
So it all starts. With the invasion of Poland in September of 1939, which pissed off Britain and France, so they declare war on Germany, which as we know today, sets off a little, um, chain reaction, uh, all across the world for the next six years, which is basically World War II. The teams were basically made up of the good guys or the protagonists, depending on what side you were on, I suppose, also referred to in the history book as the allies, that's the United States, the United Kingdom, the Soviet Union. And China, which is hysterical. If you think about that group together today, let's go Soviet Union, China, America on the same team.
Yay. Okay. Then you have the bad guys or the villains who are also known as the Axis powers led by Germany, of course, then Japan and Italy and a total spoiler alert. The allies win. Thanks in part to Truman deciding to drop some atomic bombs on a bunch of people in Japan at both Hiroshima and Nagasaki, [00:06:00] which is.
What we're going to talk about today. I highly suggest doing a little homework on your own because World War Two has some cool chapters in between that we should probably do some podcast episodes on like the Holocaust. Let's go the bombing of Pearl Harbor D Day. Oh, D Day. We got to do D Day. That would be awesome.
Let's do D Day.
Amanda H: I mean, yes, I think these are all topics we should talk about. They're heavy. I don't know if I would call them cool or awesome, but
Peter B: But we gotta teach people.
Amanda H: Alright, alright.
Peter B: We gotta teach people.
Amanda H: I mean, that was a good little synopsis, too.
Peter B: Thank you very much.
Amanda H: So, good job. I think I got it. But for today, since we're sticking with just the bombing of Japan, You want to give me some quick deets on the actual bombing so we're all caught up?
Peter B: Okay, got it.
So, did you see Oppenheimer?
No. Do you watch any movies?
Amanda H: Evidently not really.
Peter B: Okay. Wow. You gotta see Oppenheimer. Well, anybody out there who's seen Oppenheimer, great movie, but that's not the point. It's all about the Manhattan Project, this is why I'm bringing it up, which was basically set from 1943 to 1945 when Robert Oppenheimer and a bunch of other really smart dudes [00:07:00] led a top secret research mission to develop the first atomic bomb and end the damn war.
And, another spoiler alert, Amanda, he was successful, and, yay, bombs were born, so I don't know if that's a good thing. For this podcast episode it is. Okay, go ahead. I'm staying true to your question. You asked me what the heck the actual bomb was about. Here we go. So 1945, little do people remember, Germany actually had already surrendered.
But Japan were being dicks, and they were still holding out. So Truman decides, enough's enough, and we drop the first bomb on Hiroshima on August 6th, 1945. And the second one on Nagasaki on August 9th, 1945, which is the whole reason for this episode in the first place. Cause we're hitting the 79th anniversary of the bombing in a few days.
So the bombs were named fat man and little boy. Some people say that fat man was named after Winston Churchill, the leader of like Britain back then. But that's pretty fucked up. In my opinion, it was actually based on its design, which had a big round casing and was named after Casper Gutmann, the villain in [00:08:00] the famous 1929 novel, The Maltese Falcon, written by Dachille Hammett.
Fun fact, that was awesome. And then it gets a bit more complicated. There was actually a third atomic bomb called Thin Man, cause, the casing was thinner. But it never worked cause it wasn't stable enough. And it was named after a different book written by Hammett in 1934. So since that didn't get any legs, they named the, I guess the second one, little boy was sort of a joke or a shout out to the thin man.
Cause it ended up being smaller and more stable. So that's how it got his name, but it all goes back to some really smart dudes who thought they were really cool. Like bringing them back to naming them after novels that they loved. Go figure.
Amanda H: That's super nerdy.
Peter B: It is. Very nerdy stuff. Okay, so both were flown by B 29 bombers, one named the Enola Gay, after the pilot's mom, Colonel Paul Tibbets, and the other Bokstar, after Frederick Bok, also a pilot, but who didn't fly the plane that day, Major Charles Sweeney. takes that distinction. Fun fact, Captain Bach was actually in the air on the raid alongside [00:09:00] them in a different B 29 bomber taking pictures of all the attacks for posterity. So they were all up there together. The pilots got to name their bombers after someone they loved. So that's they were both named after either like in this case, his mom, Paul's mom or Frederick was, I guess, named after him.
And finally, The impact at Hiroshima was nuts. An estimated 80, 000 people died instantly, and another 60, 000 by the end of 1945 from radiation sickness and other injuries. 70 percent of the city was destroyed. And in Nagasaki, roughly 40, 000 people died instantly, and another 30, 000 people by the end of 1945.
Amanda H: That's terrible. That's over 200, 000 people in less than one year. Plus, all the others that died over the next, what, 30, 40, 50 years from all the side effects and the fallout? That's really just mind blowing. And not okay.
Peter B: I know. I know. It totally sucks. I don't even know how I'm really going to make this funny, [00:10:00] other than probably saying that planning all those funerals must have been A pretty big undertaking.
Amanda H: You're such an ass.
Peter B: I know, but that was, that was my, that was my dad joke. That was funny.
Amanda H: I mean, it's a little funny. No, no, I don't know if it's any funny. But, why did they do it in the first place? Are you telling me
Peter B: Why they dropped bombs in the first place?
Amanda H: Yeah. Are you telling me they really had no other alternatives?
Peter B: That had, I'm sure they had alternatives. I don't, here's the deal. Like there's a moral dilemma here somewhere. You don't know what you don't know. So they built some statistical models that I would guess told them there would be more deaths if they let the war drag on than if they dropped bombs.
So they chose the unpopular path to end the war quickly with what they believed to be the least amount of devastation and death versus a drawn out, totally bloody invasion of Japan. That would have lasted for years. And who knows how many people would die?
And let's cut shit. They probably wouldn't admit it, but they wanted to demonstrate the power of the atomic bomb. So nobody. And when I say nobody, I really mean like [00:11:00] the Soviet union would ever like fuck with America. Personally, I think there was some underpinnings there, but really it was all about sort of the ethical dilemma of how many to kill.
So, uh, it all happened. Bombs dropped. A bunch of people died. And on August 15th, 1945, Emperor Hirohito announced Japan's surrender and the end to World War II. You could argue we won, but did humanity win? Look. We planned and calculated how to drop bombs, on civilians. Civilians. A massive humanitarian disgrace.
And some people argued it was racism and retribution. That was the real reason behind the decision to drop the bombs 'cause of the attack on Pearl Harbor. I'm not weighing in on that one, but I can totally see the argument. Look, I'm no military strategist.
Amanda H: No you're not.
Peter B: Thank you. But I feel like at the very least, we could have dropped the bomb on some like.
Uninhabited area in an ocean or something and still showcase the power of the bomb without actually killing any people and still getting the war to end Or at the very least like scare the [00:12:00] shit out of Japan to start negotiating and then I'd wait like 10 days and if that didn't Work, I would totally nuke them.
Amanda H: Stop it. It's so bad So bad
Peter B: It is bad.
Amanda H: But no pun intended here. I swear what was the fallout? Like the lasting effects. It's gotta be kind of crazy.
Peter B: First of all, that was a pun totally intended. What was the fallout?
Amanda H: Um, you know.
Peter B: Oh my god, I think it was totally a pun. Um, dropping the bombs had massive effects.
Like short and like long term effects. Like not just death and stuff. Like environmental stuff, relationship with Japan stuff, science stuff, medical stuff. There was a lot of stuff.
Amanda H: I'm sure. It's a nuclear bomb.
Peter B: The fallout was crazy. We already talked about like 150, 000 people or so dying instantly. And then like another 50, 000 dying within the next few months.
From like injuries or radiation poisoning, but you also have the survivors known in Japanese as Hibakusha That suffered all sorts of chronic shit like [00:13:00] cancer leukemia and other radiation complications
Amanda H: like Sadako, the girl you talked about at the beginning,
Peter B: her and hundreds of thousands more just like her. Then, don't forget, you had all the birth defects and genetic mutations and malformations that started showing up in all the babies of all the survivors for the next like umpteen years.
And that's just the physical effects. They probably all suffered from chronic meldrop too. It was terrible.
Amanda H: Dude. Did you really just use meldrop? Uh, in
that context?
Peter B: That could've been real.
You don't know what they could've said. Meldrop was probably a big thing then. And it totally worked right there. So I'm taking it.
Amanda H: Okay, fine.
Peter B: Okay. Then you have all the psychological stuff. Okay, so you know, like, after seeing 200, 000 of your friends blown to pieces in like five seconds? The Hibakusha had to deal with massive psychological disorders.
They didn't even have names for them at the time, I'm sure. Like Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, Depression, Anxiety, and my personal favorite, Barophobia.
Amanda H: What is Barophobia?
Peter B: The fear of something falling on your [00:14:00] head.
Amanda H: Yeah, I mean, I guess that that would definitely be I would I would think new phobia unlocked
Peter B: would think everybody had bar a phobia back then right?
It was probably it was probably a real thing people are freaked out Anyway, I wonder what the name is for like fear of nuclear weapons I didn't look that up like radioactive intestinal a phobia or something like that. Like I wonder what it is Can you look that up? I want to know.
Amanda H: Intestinal phobia.
Peter B: I don't know.
Amanda H: I can't. I can't with you.
Peter B: Just look it up. I want to know. You Google while I keep going.
Amanda H: Okay, got it.
Peter B: Alright, so enough of that. Then you had all the environmental impacts. Radiation, contamination everywhere.
Dude, in the water. In the soil, in the air, just floating around, trying to stick all over you. Whenever you walked for the next gazillion years or whatever the half life is on nuclear fallout, I have no freaking idea. And I'm sure you had like Sika deer running around with like four heads and monkeys with tumors growing off their ball sacks, trying to fly through the trees with all that extra weight.
And that's just like the nature stuff. You also had a shitload of buildings destroyed with radiation. So they probably had to wait like decades to test [00:15:00] soil and rebuild buildings that were all fucked up because the radiation was just in the cracks and the rubble and the dust and shit. And I'm not even close to done.
I am, I am on a roll. Alright? Then there was like, the stigma stuff. Like think about the stigma stuff. So first of all, how many people do you think were homeless after bombs dropped?
Amanda H: All of them?
Peter B: Yeah, like, right, all, exactly, all of them. Millions of people. Yeah. Okay, where they're supposed to go, everything in general was wiped out.
So they're kind of just screwed, sleeping all over the streets and stuff, and then any of the hibakusha, remember the survivors, were probably all burned and gross and stuff, and so no one wanted to help them, and they were probably all worried about contracting radiation from them, so they were probably ostracized, because nobody knows what's going on, so play this forward for a sec, and I'm sure like a ton of these survivors couldn't even get Couldn't even get married, wouldn't even be, like, allowed to socially integrate again, like, at all, because everybody else was freaking out.
Kind of like what we did to the lepers in Kaliopapa. Do you remember this, like, in Molokai, back in, like, the early 1900s?
Amanda H: No, but this is all terrible.
Peter B: Yeah, we [00:16:00] rounded up all the lepers and sent them to Hawaii, on that little island, to live out the rest of their life. And that's where Father Damien, that priest, ended up going.
It, it's insane. But, like, this is really what happened, that nobody talks about anymore. And, like, the impacts were, like, super lasting.
Amanda H: I mean, that's all really terrible and I feel like all of these people probably had, nuclear phobia.
Peter B: Nuclear phobia, fear of nuclear weapons. You found it.
Amanda H: Yeah. The anxiety or phobia in the face of a potential future nuclear holocaust. Okay.
Peter B: I like that. Or good job googling.
Amanda H: Automasophobia?
Peter B: Automasophobia.
Ooh, that sounds scary. That's dark.
Amanda H: The fear of atomic explosions.
Peter B: Yeah, that's it. Automasophobia, whatever that one is. Yeah, it. Yep, totally. Good on you, researcher. I like that. Alright.
Amanda H: New phobias unlocked. Who knew? Who knew?
Peter B: Okay, but wait. There was a lot of good stuff that came from this, too.
So, like, I'm gonna pick you up.
Amanda H: Like what?
Peter B: Like, like, like. Global peace movements.
Amanda H: That's what you got two hundred and ten thousand people died and the good of that [00:17:00] was a peace movement Seriously,
Peter B: just stay with me here.
Amanda H: I don't know if I can okay. I'm all worked up right now
Peter B: I know you do this to me a lot like and all these episodes I try to get out as much information as fast as I can you and you you get mad because it's I didn't create this Problem,
Amanda H: I'm not mad.
Peter B: We like the United States of America created this problem. Okay? Okay, so like you have to think back right up until that time, everybody thought nuclear weapons were cool. But after that, a whole shit ton of people started advocating for nuclear disarmament, like mass amounts of people from all over the world.
It was a really big deal. They started annual commemorations like Hiroshima day. Shout out August 6th and Nagasaki day, August 9th, promoting peace and understanding and reminding everyone to stop building bombs and stuff. Cause radiation makes you green and hairy and grow weird shit all over your body.
So maybe even better than that, Amanda, then you have all the research that started on radiation exposure. which led to massive advancements in our understanding of radiation's impact on human health. Thanks to all the test [00:18:00] subjects, uh, we basically melted that day and lived long enough for us to study them, which I know sounds terrible, but bear with me.
So, now we use radiation in medical treatments and built in the right safety standards and protocols so we don't fry anyone while they're getting their cancer treatment. Shout out to the City of Hope for doing right by my wife Gabby. Let's go. So that's good.
Amanda H: Okay. I, I can see some potential.
Peter B: Yes, absolutely.
And finally, because of dropping the bomb, we have totally improved our disaster recovery prep and gotten way faster with all of our medical response capabilities for all kinds of mass casualty events, you know, just in case North Korea goes nuts and drops a bomb on us tomorrow.
Amanda H: I can't. I have this phobia.
It's a phobia now.
Peter B: But now we're getting prepared. Okay. Like, our emergency response is better. alright I know this all sucks. But at the very least, the good news. Is the effects of these bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki still resonate with us today, helping to shape global attitudes towards nuclear weapons and underscoring the importance of [00:19:00] striving for a world free from the threat of nuclear warfare.
Listen, wait, if we don't tell this story, I know it's a terrible podcast, but if we don't do this, like how are people going to learn?
Amanda H: I mean, it's true because
Peter B: nobody's reading books anymore, Amanda, we have to explain this to people. So people know
Amanda H: of this generation. This is true. They probably heard it at some point in their history class and glazed over
Peter B: right over it.
Amanda H: But tell me, did America do something after all these years, you know, reparations, something, anything that's like at least remotely edifying?
Peter B: Reparating? Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. Do you think we did? No. Okay. Uh, so I wish I could tell you that like the United States did some awesome stuff, but, uh, no formal reparations to Japan specifically for the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
but I can say after the end of the war, America did get involved in Japanese recovery and rebuilding, which I suppose you could argue were some indirect forms of [00:20:00] reparations. So first under the leadership of General Douglas MacArthur, shout out to Doug, the U S army corps of engineers helped Japan start to rebuild its economy and infrastructure, including new hospitals, new airfields, and even new housing.
And that occupation lasted until 1952. Then, through something called the Dodge Plan, the United States provided a ton of money to Japan to help stabilize the economy and promote new growth. The biggest ones were in tax reform and inflation control, and also some land reform stuff aimed at helping like the local farmers versus the large Japanese, business corps that held all the power.
So they were essentially trying to change the economy into a free market system. Then there was something called the treaty of mutual cooperation and security between the United States and Japan that basically started like a security alliance. So. Yeah. It's like, we just beat your ass, but now we want to be like the nice older brother and protect you.
So we gave them all this military support against like other enemies, like the ones that were more threatening than us, I guess. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Okay.
And finally we helped Japan with all sorts of tech [00:21:00] support.
Amanda H: That's hilarious.
Peter B: I know. Right? Like tech support, right? I know, because they would be helping us. But we, apparently we were good at tech support back then. It's true. We gave them all sorts of machinery, computer infrastructure.
We sent them a bunch of our best and brightest engineers and shared all our intellectual property in an effort to like kickstart their economy again.
Amanda H: This is like battered wife syndrome. Hi, we beat you, but we love you.
Peter B: Absolutely, it is totally battery syndrome. It sucks. So if there's a silver lining, at least we were trying, like we had a hand in helping Japan with like a more rapid post war recovery effort.
But I gotta say, I'm pretty sure we had our best interest in mind the whole time.
Amanda H: Yeah. And didn't the bombs also like lead to the start of the Cold War?
Peter B: Oh, yeah. So that it did. Right. So then the Cold War that started the arms race between the US and the Soviet Union. We won't get into that now. But like, They went nuts trying to develop nuclear weapons and decide I guess who had, like, the biggest, you know.
Amanda H: Shlong.
Peter B: Shlong. Yeah, thank you very much. Uh, but, it did do some good things. It wasn't just [00:22:00] that. It, it also led to the establishment of the United Nations, which was a totally cool thing, so up in that time.
Amanda H: I guess there's always some sort of maybe silver lining here and there.
Peter B: Yeah, we got, we got, I mean the United Nations was helpful.
Amanda H: It is,
Peter B: yeah, yeah. So UN, for those of you who don't know, is like, the whole existence was built around like maintaining international peace and at least trying to get countries to cooperate like economically, socially, and like on humanitarian problems. Which, I would argue, works for the most part. And it also led to the Non Proliferation Treaty, uh, NPT, of 1968, which tries to control and limit the spread of nuclear weapons today.
So it's still, like, active, right? So yes, it did start the Cold War, but I'd argue it led to some good shit as well.
Amanda H: Well, Peter, I guess I have to say thanks for all the info, though. I'm still quite all emotions over here, but before we get into fun facts, I do need to do a public service announcement. Okay.
Peter B: A public service.
Amanda H: Yeah. Oh, I need to apologize on the behalf of you for any insensitivity during this episode. I mean, I know you're just trying to be funny. So [00:23:00] listeners, if you didn't appreciate it. We're truly sorry for that. We are sensitive to all those who lost their lives and were so deeply affected by this event.
And I know I speak for Pete when I say, may God be with all those people who deal with the lasting effects of this tragedy.
Peter B: Damn. Well said. Way to come over the top and dig me out of that hole. I know totally sometimes my humor doesn't hit. So good call out. And Amanda, if it's any consolation, I totally root for Japan now in the World Cup, like all the time.
Amanda H: Okay. So I don't know if that, Really helps. That's also really random.
Peter B: Well, I'm just telling you, like, I'm trying to be socially aware. Okay. Alright. I don't know. I'm sorry. It was a hard episode. It's hard. It is. I was trying to be funny. It didn't hit maybe a little bit. Thank you. No, I, I, this is why I love that you're my co host.
Because this totally works. Okay?
Amanda H: All right. Well, let's lighten the mood in a different way, in a different way. Yes. Let's get on to fun facts or at least little known facts, because I don't know if there's anything fun about this.
Peter B: There is, there is nothing fun. You are right.
Little, little known facts. All right. We're going to rip, we're going to rip through these suckers. Okay. So actually [00:24:00] there were five Japanese cities on US's initial hit list. And Nagasaki wasn't even one of them. The list included Kokura, Hiroshima, Yokohama, Niigata, and Kyoto. It's said that Kyoto was ultimately spared because U. S. Secretary of War Henry Stimson was fond of the ancient Japanese capital, having spent his honeymoon there. Seriously, his honeymoon there, decades earlier. So Nagata, so Nagasaki took its place instead. Not sure why they ruled the others out, but this is filthy.
Amanda H: They just threw a dart.
Peter B: Yeah, this is absolutely filthy, right?
Okay, they weren't fun facts. They were little known facts. Okay, the most destructive World War two bombing attack on Japan was actually neither Hiroshima nor Nagasaki. It was actually something called Operation Meeting House the u. s. Fire bombing of Tokyo on March 9th 1945 five months earlier As considered the deadliest bombing raid in history, a napalm attack carried out by 334 B 29 bombers killed more than 100, [00:25:00] 000 people.
30, 000 more than Hiroshima.
Amanda H: This is awful.
Peter B: On March 9th, 1945.
Amanda H: And I must say, I don't recall that.
Peter B: Yeah, Operation Meeting House, we don't even talk about that. Right. I know. It's crazy. Okay, number three, before the atomic attacks, the U. S. Air Force dropped pamphlets in Japan as a warning to the Japanese people.
While they didn't specifically warn of an impending nuclear attack on either Hiroshima or Nagasaki, they did warn and promise prompt and utter destruction and urge Japanese civilians to flee the areas. So there was some sort of like try, but I don't think they were really specific.
Sort of weird. Okay. Number four, the bomb blast in Hiroshima was so intense that it permanently burned the shadows of people and objects into the ground. And these permanent markings became known as the Hiroshima shadows. Just on the ground the forever lasting print. Yes, unbelievable. Okay, number five because winners write history It [00:26:00] is the a popular opinion that the dropping of the atomic bombs ended World War two But minutes recently made public from meetings held between Japanese government officials in the lead up to their surrender suggests that the Soviet Union's unexpected Entry into the war with Japan played a more decisive role Then the bombs themselves.
So Japan was starting to surrender because they didn't want to deal with two fronts, U. S. and Soviet Union. And then we preemptively, I guess, dropped some bombs when I'm not quite sure we had to because big brother Soviet Union man was over there sort of helping.
Amanda H: Hindsight.
Peter B: I know, right? Uh, so this next one is more of a beautiful fact than a fun fact.
So you'll like this. The oleander has become the official flower of the city of Hiroshima because it was the first plant to blossom again after the atomic bomb blast a hundred days later.
The oleander. I think that's totally cool. And finally, in Hiroshima's Peace Memorial Park, a flame has burned continuously [00:27:00] since it was lit in 1964 commemorating the bombings.
This peace flame will remain lit until all nuclear bombs on the planet are destroyed and the planet is free from the threat of nuclear destruction.
Amanda H: Which I totally hope is in my lifetime.
But I don't think it's going to be. But why isn't the Peace Memorial Park a wonder of the world? It should be like totally on the list.
Peter B: Should we petition to get it on the list? I think we petition. Yep. Because they don't really have an official list. Remember.
Amanda H: Change. org.
Peter B: Let's go.
Amanda H: Let's go.
Peter B: I like your attitude.
Amanda H: All right.
Peter B: All right. That's all I got. So like, uh, let's wrap it up. I'm in.
Amanda H: Well, hopefully you feel like you learned a little more today about the tragedies of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It's important to never forget and to teach and warn the next generations of our mistakes and the impacts that they create.
While we can never undo what was done. We hope we can continue to champion peace efforts throughout the world and an effort to better understand one another. So with that, Pete, what do we take away from this episode to keep with us always?
Peter B: All right. Well, first, if you can swing it, I would highly suggest you visit [00:28:00] one of the memorials here in the United States.
They have them in Albuquerque, New Mexico, Independence, Missouri, at the UN headquarters in New York, New York, the Sadako statue we talked about earlier in Seattle, Washington, if they ever find her, and the story of the Manhattan Project spread across Oak Ridge, Tennessee, Los Alamos, New Mexico, and Hanford, Washington.
So there's a lot of. in the U. S. to sort of pay tribute. you can also visit relocation centers here in the U. S. where, I don't know if you remember or recall, Amanda, where we rounded up Japanese immigrants during World War II and made them live together for fear of, like, retaliation inside our borders.
Super sketch American thing we did. There's ten of them around the country. Tule Lake and Manzanar, California, Gila River and Potsdam, Arizona, Jerome and Rochwer, Arkansas, maybe I said that right, Minidoka, Idaho, Topaz, Utah, Heart Mountain, Wyoming, and Granada, Colorado.
So again, sort of places to sort of have a moment to go memorialize. Okay, so, I know everybody doesn't travel, right? [00:29:00] Whatever, I would highly suggest you get to one of these sites, but, if you can't travel, then check out White Light, Black Rain, a documentary released in, um, yeah, I want to say like 15 years ago, about the destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
It streams on Max. It's excellent, complete with real footage and survivor interviews. Highly, highly suggest it white, light, black rain. You'll get a good sense of really what went on. then after you're armed with some info, when you're at your next get together, ask folks what their favorite historical time period is.
Then listen, while they light up talking about some memories they haven't experienced for a while, or nerd out on some really cool old stuff they weren't even alive for. Share with them that you've really been into World War II lately and you've learned a lot about the effects of the atomic bombs. Then share these interesting and relevant details to seem sort of sophisticated.
Hiroshima was bombed on August 6, 1945 with an atomic bomb nicknamed Little Boy. And Nagasaki was bombed on August 9, 1945 with an atomic bomb named Fat Man. In [00:30:00] Hiroshima, approximately 70, 000 to 80, 000 people died instantly. And in Nagasaki, approximately 40, 000 to 50, 000 people died instantly. By the end of 1945, the death toll in Hiroshima rose to 140, 000.
And in Nagasaki, about 80, 000. Due to radiation sickness, burns, and other injuries. Both cities were largely destroyed. In Hiroshima, about 70 percent of the buildings were demolished. Survivors known as Hibakusha suffered from severe radiation sickness, increased cancer rates, and chronic illnesses.
To this day, the decision to bomb by Harry S. Truman was based on a belief that the use of atomic weapons would hasten an end to World War II. I mean, to avoid a protracted and bloody invasion of Japan and actually try to save more lives. Japan announced its surrender on August 15th, 1945, leading to the official end of World War Two on September 2nd, 1945. The bombings remain highly controversial to this day. Some argue they were necessary to end the war swiftly and save lives. Others view them as morally indefensible [00:31:00] acts that targeted civilians. And finally, Hiroshima and Nagasaki have become symbols of peace and the anti-nuclear movement memorials and museums in both cities educate visitors about the bombings and advocate for a nuclear free world.
Amanda H: So as we conclude this sombering episode, it's important to remember the profound impact these bombings not only had On the immediate victims, but also on the course of world history. These events marked the dawn of the nuclear age, compelling humanity to grapple with the ethical, political, and existential implications of nuclear weapons, the immense suffering endured by the survivors and the lasting scars on the affected cities serve as a stark reminder of the devastating power of atomic warfare today, Hiroshima and Nagasaki stand as symbols of resilience and advocates for global peace and disarmament.
Reflecting on these tragedies underscores the importance of striving for a world where such horrors are never repeated. We'd like to think we shared just enough information to make you either a flaming nuisance or a little more sophisticated to your fellow humans.
Sort of. So remember folks, [00:32:00] this one's for you Pete. If you ever feel the urge to drop a bomb, just make sure to do it in the toilet. If you enjoyed this episode and found it particularly interesting, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share with your peeps.
Until next time, stay safe, stay sane, and be the change you want to see in the world.
