Episode Transcript
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We just turn on these mics. Amanda, uh, an AI overview says, I quote, I quote, mind you, I have it right here. An informal suggests an attempt or without fully achieving it.
It can be used to describe a person or thing that is somewhat cultured, refined or complex. Or, check this not gonna believe this. It can podcast, check Check, the Google A We made it. We made it. I totally did this. Look
at
us. We're we're
Googleable.
We are, we're an
adjective.
Yeah. And what is so frightening about this concept is, I'm gonna guess that like, maybe not Google, but like AI or Alexa already knows what we're this week.
Because like of all the da da da da Like if I
footprint. Yeah.
If I asked Alexa right now, like, Hey, what, what's the new episode gonna be about? I bet she's gonna know. That's crazy shit, isn't it?
Huh. Alright.
personally,
just that computers are taking over the world.
They are taking over the world. Yeah. Yes. Okay.
Uh, and for those of you guys following anything, I apologize, uh, if my pits start to sweat a little bit, uh, through this episode, 'cause genius over here likes to keep the air conditioning at like 85 sauna. It's literally a sauna The only good news is for
like women, we go through menopause. Uhhuh, I don't know what it is for
old, so like notches right now,
but you're not uhhuh. And so. Whatever I don't have to menopause is I No, is what you are.
No. Halfway through this episode, I'm literally gonna peel off my underwear on, on camera. That's how bad this is right now.
It's a whole different level of terrible, sort of sophisticated, this
terrible Yeah. And right. It is. It's not sophisticated at all. It's barbaric
waiting. More importantly, we've, we've gone from ai, sweating. We have, there's a lot. And being premenopausal. I don't know. There's a lot
happening. I know, I know. I'm gonna need a drink. I think I'm gonna Where's our office manager? Let's get, get a drink in here, damnit.
Okay. Um, first this episode 'cause I like doing that. Then
Really, you're just gonna tell us what got up your craw?
Yes.
Okay.
No, but this is actually a good one.
All right.
Right. So, um, one of my children called me earlier this week. Uh, and I'm not gonna tell you which child you know, I don't wanna like sell 'em out or Right now. Well, oh, I can't to the lb lgbtq plus community. one of my children called me right to this Great. Yes. And said, dad, I'm going into the boss's office right now. I'm asking for a raise. don't wanna sound like a jerk. And you always tell me like, entitled Genzer. So like help now.
Okay.
And I was like
I mean, good for them for like having confidence to be able to ask you.
But like that's a thing you don't just like conversation.
That's not like a here it is in two minutes or less. But if
you also think about it, how many dads would actually know the answer to that?
I don't. I don't know if I knew the answer.
Oh, I did the best I could. No, I'm sure you did.
Yeah, I'm sure you did. tell you what I said right now. Do you know why? Because we have to, 'cause we're gonna learn about it. podcast on it. Okay. So instead of helping my child what I did was I said, Hey, they, um, thi this is a can't say they, child of mine, child number X of mine.
Uh, this is a really good topic for a podcast. So right now, I'm đź“Ť episode Dad moment. So there's that dad moment, right? Totally. Okay. So the official name of this episode, if you'd like, is called, show Me the Art of Yes. We're
gonna say we're learn all that. I know nothing about this.
dude. We're gonna learn all that. I'm all. Yeah, well, but you give raises to myself. No, but you give, raise like,
that's like, it's whatever. She earns it and we just
Okay, so you deal with it.
She does. She doesn't even ask in
your world. Okay, fine.
All right. No. All I'm gonna say is we're going through, we're going through a bunch of shit today.
Okay.
We're going through history 'cause All right. We'll go fast through history 'cause I know you don't. There's history a race.
Yeah. There's a little bit of history. Right, right, right. Then we're gonna do this whole, like, I think you're pulling shit
outta your ass now.
Oh my god. I am my underwear. Okay. That this unbelievable. All right. bit about like, how to set up for the ask. Then we're gonna act, we're gonna go through like role.
I don't wanna say role playing, but we'll do like the thing like, how All right. Okay. Love cut. And then, spoiler alert, no, we're actually gonna say like, how to deal with that. Okay. So like, this packed.
dangling the carrot, are you ready to get gonna keep talking about what we're talking about before we talk about it?
I, uh, would like to move
of the day Compensation
Here Compensation. Compensation now begins, no. What?
Concentration.
Yeah. Don't you remember that? Didn't you play that with your cake concentration?
Yeah. You're using the wrong word. That's why. Okay. Whatever.
Yeah, crepe
I'm sorry.
What?
cre. Yes. Repi. Cre. Like crepe paper. Like Oh, I like you're eating crepes. You,
you, you're constipated
with crepes. no, not at all. I, no, no. no. It means to make a crackling sound. Cremate. I
mean, if you were constipated with crepes, maybe you'd make a
You would actually, I'm just kidding. Think about it. you're onto something. Check this out. Oh yeah. Yes. Listen, from the Latin verb re to rattle, it got popular in the early describe. Huh? you didn't even know.
Okay. Not too far off. Then it disappears for a while. Uh, and then most recently made a century and now is actually used as okay. fire, like a crackling fire. Okay. Crepitations. You with me? Yeah. All right.
Um, so are we starting the app?
Yeah, we're totally starting the app? Oh,
So do I just barge into my office and be like, Hey man, I deserve a raise
if get one. Yes. Oh, way. That's perfect.
So then,
you could repi tape all over him and then run Just be but also I could do history first.
Okay. I was gonna say yes.
I was gonna say, you mentioned that there was some history, which I don't really believe ahead and convince me that There's history of asking my boss. There's A little bit of
history.
Okay, here
we are. Slaves, indentured servants, stuff. A bunch of rulers, plantation owners, whatever they wanted to. I mean, some people were getting paid, but most people were like working like, how this whole system started to begin with. So instead
of asking for money, did they ask for
of 'em asked for freedom. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But like, freedom. Right. like, let's cut to shit.
Okay. and even if you were getting paid, it was like by peace or harvest or bushel, I don't know. But like, it was like, read the Bible, right? Like a day's wage, right? Like all the parables that say like, this is what this man's worth. It's a day's wage. Like people made, it was random. Okay. They just made, they just made shit up.
It wasn't about raises as much as like just getting people paid for like service. Okay. You're with me so far, Right? Yes. Yes. Okay. Like a lot of times Even most cases it was room and board. Okay. fast forwarding. I'm fast forwarding far.
Here We go.
pH 17th, 18th century. Okay. Alright. I'm already in there. Right? So factories Industrial revolution, blah, blah, blah. Here we go. figure out, uh, they could standardize pay. Let's go. Okay. Is this where
like the hourly Yes. Okay. We go.
Perfect. That's you, you're right on track. raises weren't a thing yet, but like hourly wage was a thing. So way to get a raise, like at that time was you'd have to like, I don't know, not like, like, rebel. fight, you'd, you'd get together as a group of people and go to, is this also how
unions then started?
This is
exactly Okay. You're you're ahead of me. Yes. So you're moving me fast through history on purpose. I'm, I can see what's happening.
No, no, it's fine. So, but it, I, it kind of tracks though. That's exactly right. Like before it was like you would work, you were a slave. and then you would work for food or whatever. Yes. Correct. And then now it became like standardized. You have for hourly wage, you work
for pay. Yep. And then there was that's, when, 'cause
multiple voices are more than one.
Here we go. Um, labor Day. You remember the episode on labor? Oh, yes. We talked about, okay, go. It. Maybe that's
why I'm going so fast is because we've already, we've already educated me
Okay. Okay. are. instead of labor unions, now companies, general Motors. Okay. IBM, like Big At&t. Oh yeah. Big start doing corporations. Yes. They start doing the Dun annual performance reviews.
Now was that,
that start, they
they start them though?
In order to get like better productivity?
Yes, of
course. Or in order to fire people.
I would say all of those things. Okay. But what came from now it was raises individualized raises, not collective bargaining anymore. Okay. So, I mean, there's still labor unions and they're still bargain. I I get the whole concept, but generally speaking,
but instead of being like, I treat you. all Each individual, no General Motors
you. This is what's going on. I mean,
fear, I don't like group projects for the reason of, I do more work than most of the people.
Thank you very much. I'm not trying Be an asshole,
but No, that flex. I mean, remember when you learned the word flex? You're flexing. Okay. So early two cost of living increase.
When am I gonna get my cost of living increase. people expected races. every year, like gimme my, okay. So
we went from,
performance to like, you owe me shit?
I think so. I mean, you're asking some questions I like, because it's
like, well then, then did the government was it really people that
I don't, even know, questions you're bringing up. I have to do more homework after this episode because of, you. Sorry. it's fine. Alright, so where are we? Like the 2000 tens right? around there. I don't know. like threw a wrench in everything. 'cause now it was about right? It was about It was or like you deserve this or anything else. So that's sort of when the landscape started changing for the first time. From the raise.
or getting it through a performance review to having to be good at promoting yourself and negotiating the raise.
today. Don't get raises based off of performance reviews.
no. So I would say no. Totally. Like they do my
Right. Okay. when I'm getting that report And you tell me, negotiate?
a manufacturing company.
So like, I don't love to use where I work as like the example here. it's, generally when do I
negotiate
You whole point. this is what we're gonna talk about. have to negotiate for continuous. Oh, this is the, culture that shifted. So that's what I'm saying. Now that we're in 2000 twenties, I dunno if it's a result of COVID, I dunno Of Gen Z coming in the mean there's a it's tough. Okay. Okay. But likelihood. Of you have to, figure out this humble brag thing. Okay. That's very complicated. reason my kid called and said, what do I do?
I gotta figure this out.
Interesting. So
to today.
We just like
We hopped and skipped. And jumped. all right. Enough Let's get down to brass tacks. Can we get to, can we do bras, tacks Now? I'm
ready. What does brass tack
tacks. It's like matter. Oh, okay. Like the, like you get Yeah.
We're buckling down, we're buck dropping in.
There's
alt. Yes. All of those things. Don't brass tacks. I just know I'm not, I'm not. There's a lot of bras tacks get to them. Okay. Right now. Right now. Okay. Can I start with a fun fact? I got a fun fact.
Fun fun facts.
You ready for surveyed accepted their last job offer without a negotiation.
Okay. So on whatever that website's called.
You wanna Superfund fact, before you start ahead, go crazy on this whole thing,
raise. Just hand it to 'em. Just accept. it.
So I do believe that. That seems like a very believable why? Because when you apply for a your right salary is. I think it just takes like balls and I don't know if everyone got some kanas there. I have never, thank God for us, Never. Thank God for this negoti negotiated. We're
negotiating. You own your own business. Of course you're
that.
Okay. Right.
I didn't negotiate. Never. negotiate. didn't know two shit. But
now are we renegotiating 'cause it's a cultural change? Or is we renegotiating because we feel like we're entitled to more?
No, this is what we're gonna talk about.
Okay. Because this is not about entry level positions. I'm not like I know you're
saying like, once you're Right.
So it's, it's all about aligning value. Right? Okay. I think is what's important here.
so wait, clarification, you said
Yes.
So you never negotiated for your salary to start with when you got hired?
Yeah. But did you ask for a raise?
Wow. You're asking the wrong person. different generation. Remember, remember the point of this podcast, we, reach old men. like me We're trying Zers. all this. because although I wasn't on the asking part of the raise, I was on the receiving end of asking for a raise. Yeah, yeah. Right.
You're the boss.
Yeah. piss me off. boss, I wanna raise the, hell?
Like what?
it wasn't, I'll decide your generation,
but I also think that was a leadership problem for me. Okay. 'cause now, like so long leadership journey, right? 31 years of doing all this stuff, you start was less about them being arrogant being uh, entitled.
And it them trying to align their they believed their was valued them. So it really that as an older leader. I don't mind the conversation. It doesn't mean they're all getting raises, but I Okay. No problem. Totally different. Do you
I mean, money is an important issue. And it's livelihood and standard of living. I get that. Yes, it's, yeah. But I guess my question is, do you think this is happening more often because people aren't feeling the value at their company or they're not being fulfilled in that way versus I think market's driving Like, but my, I guess the core of it is, are they asking for a raise for the monetary value of it solely, or are they asking they're wanting to see and be validated in their value in the company
If they do their research right, they're realizing what their value is in the marketplace, in the economy externally.
So
you're just saying when you compare, I'm sure you're gonna go position, your title to other Yes, of course.
that's one we're gonna chat about a little bit. Yes. So, so
people compare
But that's them sort it out. Okay. Sort of, sort of, here we are. Exactly PSA right now. IPSA. Which whatcha service announcement right Oh good. um, here's a PSA. to this podcast episode and getting a raise. groundwork like this is going to take a while. You gotta build up to it. lay groundwork. The whole problem is that when my kid called, it's the awkward conversation. That's what people the employee hates.
It's all confusing and it's all like, Hey, I wanna talk about my value, blah, blah. But here's the, the rub. The rub is if you lay all the groundwork and all the things we talk about in advance, this very simple, So my, my PS does. Yes, it does. Yes. My first people.
Okay. There is no, no, you gotta lay the groundwork. There is no quick hack here. Okay. None.
It's not like diving in the deep end.
No, we're not doing that. You gotta learn how to swim first. Yes. Sorry, people. Yes.
Alright. Are you gonna tell us how to successfully negotiate for ourselves or are you gonna just keep rambling?
Oh, no, first of all, I'm ready. Yeah, I'm just
ready.
I'm
Two things will occur Two, successfully explain
of explaining.
All right. First, here's what you're gonna do. People or LinkedIn jobs. are others, but those Just like you said earlier, just know what's so bad? What? I
have LinkedIn. I didn't know there was LinkedIn offers. That's what that's from. are getting offers Yes.
In their Yeah. whatever. Totally. Yeah. They should check it out
all. salary ranges It's very complicated because you get the range, you have the low range, you have the high range, of course. And that depends in that, on that bell Okay. Or if you're, you know, tenured in a position and then two, it's also that apples
to apples
and you, right, and you can't see all that through Glassdoor, data points and sort of really you fit in, right? it's pretty safe to say like the middle of that range somewhere if you're at a decent sized company, but like, not necessarily. So you have to be careful. But it does give you to has you in the right ballpark. and sign up and like, I don't know, I dunno if it's pay for service. I, I think I pay for Glassdoor, uh, if I remember right, years ago. But like, I think if you a free trial.
Like you could find a lot of information out, right? Like, like, 'cause these are, these are employees entering information Oh, on Glassdoor. Okay. bullshit, this is like colleagues and stuff putting stuff in. So it's, it gives you a really good baseline for sure. Again, recognize your, like be careful in where you fit in all that.
That only one data point have
discernment is What you're saying.
Oh my God, that should have been our word of the day. Have discernment. Yes. Yes.
I deserve the top bracket of this.
Yeah.
Unless you're you, but yes, correct. I would not, you can't do that, right? I don't, yeah.
Okay. Next. Check. Check.
figure out, in your space specifically, specific. Same job. Other
corporations. Other business. Yes. That's
figure stuff out, be at those places, meet people, and sort of understand what this seems like a
lot.
Uh. I would hope you would network in your industry no matter who you are, right? Like you network in your industry. I went where you gotta
But why do I need a network?
In order to ask for a raise,
you have to understand what other So if my competitor down the road is paying $10,000 more for that job, So you gotta know.
So just go find a friend in the industry at a different company,
find a friend in industry, in different company, apply for different jobs.
Question mark. Don't take 'em. Maybe if you like like get Get your data. Okay. Get your data however it is, however it is. Right? Okay. So far so good.
Figure out what Your're worth is in your position. at different companies.
Yes. absolutely. Because I will tell you this, your company knows how much competitors are paying. For that position. Really? Yes. How do you know they have a, I have an HR department that does this for a living.
Oh yes. Fair. Absolutely. Okay. So if you know, and your company knows conversation quickly, getting less awkward.
Okay.
You with me
Okay, that makes sense. So let's say we do the research. I've got my numbers, I know the range. I'm feeling good to be able to have a conversation. Again, do I just walk in and say, Hey, I wanna rain, I wanna talk about it. I should be getting paid X, Y, Z. Yes.
Almost. We're getting close. We're not quite there yet. We gotta do a little bit more work. now this is the,
part where like you need to build your case slowly But steadily. So now this is about your job performance.
Okay? So now this is the personal aspect of it, not just the,
I would highly suggest, right, you start like keeping track, right? And project trackers, I don't care. Spreadsheet, I don't care if you keep it in a notebook, it doesn't matter to me. But Like projects you've accomplished, things you've finished, early, clients that you've helped, uh, accolades you've received from clients.
Like I'm not talking your regular job description stuff. that's, you're above and beyond. That's the expectation, right? maybe, uh, colleagues that have called you out for some reason, or, or you've, you've helped them in some capacity. So it, you need your, I know this is hard for people, but, this is sort of your, I don't wanna say bragging points, but, but, but but it,
I don't know if it's so much bragging.
It's bragging as much as it's like you've
done
some work, you're having an honest conversation, right? Of here, here's what was expected of me. Here's what, here are some things that I've done excellently, yes,
I've provided extra value, and here's how I can show you that. You have to have that ready.
Tangibly. One of those is not enough. Two of those is not enough. But if you're, if you literally are a consistent pattern, yes. If you regularly keeping track of that, you're in a much better position to start this conversation. Okay. Okay. We're giving, we're laying groundwork, remember. Okay. and then the last one is make sure all the things that you're just doing here, are connecting the dots with what the boss wants.
So,
so you're saying that I can't just take initiative and be like, I did X, Y, Z because I thought it would, would be a good idea. You're saying no, you have to have some sort of anticipation of what the boss is looking for or wanting from you in your position? Yes,
absolutely. Bigger goals, more macro goals.
Okay. great example where I, where I work, we care a lot about service, but Right. We're also, we want to, you know, make margin and that is a very challenging, those two avoid waste, uh, yeah. Right. All, all the things. Yeah. So if if we find, you know, project manager or account manager going above and beyond, like out servicing our client, I love the concept, but if we gave but didn't produce numbers, if we gave away margin because of it, well then did they solve the prop?
So I need to do both at the same time. I need to excite my client, make them love me. I also have to make money while I'm doing it. And those don't always correlate together. And so we have to be careful with you walking in the office saying, company, A loves me. Company B loves me, client C loves all the things.
And you're like, yeah, except your,
well, it goes back to your brass tax, right? Where at the end of the day, if you're not aligned with your company goals, then you're, it doesn't matter what you are doing or not doing. No, you're
in left.
You're in left field, it doesn't work. Right. So, so important stuff.
so it's like somewhere in there before this. Yeah. You need to make sure that you're aligned And understand your company's goals. Yes, you do. And where their trajectory is. Yeah. And to also understand what your role is and your participation Correct in that trajectory and how you are adding to the company's top line.
In all cases, yes. Because You can't just disappear on your boss and just assume you walk in his office after six months or one year and be like, Hey, I want the raise. Hey, here's this paper of all the things I've just done. Well, hey, here's what I think my salary like. even though even if you do all the groundwork that I'm talking about, there's still the regular conversation that you're that you're obliging to. But
then that also I would assume, means that you need to have a relationship with your boss.
duh. And you need to tune
in to duh and duh.
Yes. What
you're doing. Make sure it's aligning. Yes. Check in with your boss. Yes. So remember how, as you're making progress, do
you remember at the beginning when you were like, I said, we're gonna make this not awkward? And you were like, I don't think so. So if you're doing what you are suggesting right now, which is have these regular check-ins, this conversation is not awkward.
So then, 'cause every week you're in the boss's office. Can you imagine if you were in the boss's office once a week for 30 minutes, you had your one V one and you were like, Hey, what are your expectations? Are we meeting company goals? Here's what I'm working on. Are these priorities correct? You're not talking about a race.
You're just aligning every week. Right, so then over and over and over, realistically. Right.
This podcast isn't necessarily just about asking for raises or how to do it, but it's how to be a better professional overall and to be better at your job, which ultimately okay. Totally. Yes. Leads you, yes. To have the ability to ask for raise in a very comfortable space and position.
Yes. We're trying and not just like,
I'm with you.
Okay. Awkward turtle.
So we should rename this podcast title. Good for you. The whole episode.
I love it. No, but no, no, no. You're onto something. You think about it though, Don. I like the way you connected all those dots. That's good. That's good. I don't think that when you think about asking for a raise that we necessarily think that it's the connections that we have prior to asking for the race.
Yes, it is. But you
need to start a relationship.
It is. You absolutely do. and when those A positive one and when those people walk in the office and sit down with me, it makes the conversation really easy. And then you
listen.
Right?
Probably better
all, all the time. Sometimes. Absolutely. Okay. I love the way you put that all together.
Job well done.
Okay. So I have checked Glassdoor, I've gone on LinkedIn. I've figured out what I should be making for my position. Okay. I've now networked, I've made friends.
I see what other companies are doing, and I've created a relationship with my boss. I've bought into the fact that I am part of the solution, not the problem. And I've now documented all the different things that I have done that aligns with the company goals. Then just walk straight up into his office and flop it down on the table and say, Hey, where's my raise?
I would like to see you flop down on the table and say, where's my, like a fish? Like, be flop. Flop down right there on the table. Um, almost. You're really close. So No, you're not just walking right in. So,
so the, how are you supposed to know when's the right time?
So you gotta know the flow of the company. So back to your whole point of understanding the relationship with your boss, let's make sure you're, it's too complicated.
No, you're, no, it's not. You're, what flow of
the company,
uh, do you want to give Bethany a raise when you just lost your three largest clients and Bethany walks in? So really
what you're saying is having a pulse on the company? Correct. Okay. Absolutely.
Understood. Uh, in my business, we play by months, but really quarters.
So at the end of the quarter, if we have a shitty quarter, don't go asking. Someone walks in my office and says like, Hey, I really wanna talk about that, and they're all ready. Right? But I'm not ready because I'm like, oh God, well, you don't have the, I have
different
pressures.
Right. You don't have the flex of,
no, it's not, it's, it's everything.
I don't have a flex,
but you don't have the. Capability of spending extra money, per se, if you have a bad quarter. So you're really gotta know what's going on in the company. Yeah. And be anticipatory of what maybe the next quarter is gonna look like, you know, if you're company's doing well. Yeah. That might be a good time to ask, but if you're, you totally have to know all those things, then don't.
Yeah. Because if you don't like add
extra stress,
Yes. There's, there's an added stress. So no matter who's in front of me, I'm thinking of the macro goals of the company and it timing could be off, so it just sucks. So you have to, I think you said it right.
You have a good pulse. Right. , The good news is, you can tell when timing's better.
Is it. More than just if the company's doing well,
uh, that's one of 'em.
Okay.
Another one will be like,, big wins, client wins, . A lot of times it's about clients, right? Okay. If you win a new client,
or you're happy about something or I'm happy, whatever it is. Well, no, especially
you're part of that process of bringing it on a new client then.
Totally. . Okay. Um, another one is if you're taking on new responsibilities, that's, that's a key one. Like someone
got fired. I'm doing taking in, filling in for them.
Okay. Either
you're doing that because you wanted to go above and beyond, or your boss has asked for some help because someone writes out on maternity leave or someone was let go. Another one is during your performance review cycle. That, like, if you actually have performance review cycle, that's totally a fine time to ask, like you're, and then do you
ask or do you wait for them to Yeah. In
that case you wait for them. Okay. You wait for them to sort of go through it, and then I would say, oh, okay.
Thank you so much. And then we're gonna negotiate from there. Of course. But, but my point is, is all those are kind of key indicators on when to ask versus walking in at the wrong time. So definitely need to know the pulse. Okay. Does that make sense? Yep. Absolute. You gotta have some momentum.
Okay. Any more hacks you got? Can I do a fun fact? Can I just go? Fun fact. Oh, sure. It's not really a fun fact. It's like a fun tip. Okay. Can I do a fun tip? Yes. Okay. Pro tip. Can I do pro tip? Oh, a pro tip's better? Probably. Let's, okay. We're not gonna lead with the word raise.
We're not gonna say the word raise. Okay. 'cause it's like
red flag.
Yeah. Right. Thank you. We're gonna start with something else. We're gonna start with like, Hey, can we set up a time to talk about my role and growth over the next year? Right. We're co we're coding it. A little bit, right? Mm-hmm. You see what I'm saying there?
You say coding,
we're kind of coaching,
we're coaching, way less pressure, right? Easily opens the door. And then when you have the meeting, , the goal isn't to surprise your boss. It's like, remember at the beginning, earlier we were talking about relationship and all this whole thing?
Yes. Alignment. Right Now, your job is to like sort of connect all the dots that we're laying out in front of him. So , we're gonna make this convo go a lot better by not just saying the word raise and red flagging you with me.
Yes,
We're not catching the boss off guard. That is not the plan
ever.
Right, right, right, right.
So,
so, so here's how it would generally go growth, right? So let's say you have a regular one-on-one with your boss.
So you'd go into that meeting. in And say, Hey, I'd like to talk about my growth, my value with this company. When would you like to talk about that? Give them a bit of an out you, you're jamming it down the throat.
And they'll be like, oh, next week, let's talk about it next Wednesday. Then the boss is ready. He knows, you know, you've set the stage right. You've dropped a little bit of a hint. Right? That's exactly what I'm talking about. You're prepping. You don't walk in and say, I'd like to talk about the growth of the company right now today.
You still don't do that. You sort of give the prep. Okay. You with me? Fair? Perfect. Now? Can we do what we've all been waiting for? Yes. Can Can we get to the actual script? Oh, are we gonna
go like Yes. Back and forth?
We are, we are. I'm not, we're not.
Back and forth. This is Oh,
okay. Okay.
All right, let's start. Here's how this is gonna go. We're gonna start with something super simple.
Okay.
This is, this is literally the entrance.
I really enjoy working here at. X company, whatever it is. Right? I was excited to help onboard new client. I was excited about beating the sales number. I was excited about, uh, whatever thing you wanna lead with, finishing that project. Okay. Ahead of schedule. Sounds good. And I'd love to discuss how my role has evolved in the last three months, six months, nine, whatever it is.
Uh, and talk about whether or not we can review my compensation to reflect those changes. Oh, that's the start. That was
very fun. That's
literally the start. It's super simple, we're not trying to like get all weird about the whole thing. Okay. Like just you go super direct at it, that's it.
Unless it's performance review, like you said. In which case, if they offer you the increase, you can say that same statement. Hey, I've really enjoyed working here at this company and here's what I've been doing and been, I've been up to. Right. And I'd like to talk a little bit more about the compensation you just offered.
So it kind of just
slides in. Yeah.
Okay. So either way you're gonna, you're gonna start with the same thing. Does that make sense?
Yeah.
But I feel like it's easier said than done.
Like, I feel like you've lived through these moments so many times that it doesn't phase you anymore. But for somebody who's just doing it, I feel like they're gonna be super worried about it. Maybe anxious. Okay. Like it's not Yes, back to child. Make it sound so easy to back to my
child. No, no, I understand that.
But like, like the script is, like the stage is set, right? We just talked about this whole thing, so like, you are gonna at some point have to put on big boy pants. This is gonna have to happen. So when you get down to it, start with gratitude. I love working here, right? That's super important.
Have your spreadsheet so you actually can cite your information. You don't have to say it word for word on the spreadsheet, but like you should bring it in the room with you and have it available. Shows that you're conscientious. Shows that you care, you can absolutely say it's super important.
Hey, I've researched similar roles and based on what I'm finding, the value that my job brings in this industry space is X. Just don't be petty. Don't compare yourself. That's lame. But at some point you're going to have to be very clear that you believe that your value based on your data is important and that you would like your salary adjusted accordingly, and that has to come outta your mouth.
And as uncomfortable as it is. If you did all the things to have the relationship with your boss the way we said, for months and months and months, and then subsequently the week before you said, Hey, I'd like to talk about adjusting my compensation. They're ready for this conversation. It shouldn't be this uncomfortable.
It's only uncomfortable if you skip steps. Does that make sense?
Sure. So let's say I do everything like I'm supposed to. Yeah. But then my boss goes, I love your enthusiasm. Thanks so much for taking initiative. But no, what do you say then? What do you do?
No. Like, like this isn't a rape case, dude. No. Doesn't mean no.
Like no means yes in a lot of these cases. Okay. Oh my God, this is serious. Okay. No, doesn't mean no. No means
not right now.
, Correct. No means pause. We're pausing. Yes. Okay. No, bear with me because I have no, I'm listening. I'm telling you I have my own stresses. I have my own problems. My budget cycle's off.
I, I have to, it's sure I get all of that's gonna have all this stuff, right? . Okay, so it's
not, so then how do you know when to ask again? How do you know when to not take note and it as a no,
because you're not going, you're always gonna stay curious. You're always gonna ask questions.
So here's what I would say. I totally get it. Timing's off right now. So what would it take for me to earn. An increased compensation over the next six months. Talk me through that, please. Okay. Right. Fair. So now your boss has to answer the question. Okay. Hey, you know, you missed the mark here and here, or Hey, I that project that you thought you did so well.
Um, I'm taking that a little differently. I thought you just finished it on time. You're saying you finished it a month ahead of schedule. I think we have a misalignment here, right? Oh, okay. Got it. So the next time, so really
what you're saying is you also have to be open for, um, like some criticism to come back on you, if there is any, but also to keep an open mind so that way, like there could be a roadmap to the destination of getting your higher compensation.
Yes. But you'd be willing Yes. To listen and have, yeah. You gotta be open-minded about a back and forth conversation. Rejection.
Think of rejection as just a progression. It's just a step on the road to progress. Okay. So, okay, you're still interested in this company, you like working at the company.
Great. And if, and if you don't wanna wait six months, say, talk me through it. Say, Hey, what's it gonna take in three months? Oh, okay. Bo Boss, I'm really excited about this place. Like I really want to make sure I'm providing you the appropriate value and I wanna make sure I increase my compensation.
How does that look for you? Take me through those next steps so , you're putting timelines, so then your next conversation isn't that uncomfortable either.
Okay. So we have this conversation. Yep. I took my rejection, made it into progression. Yep. And then I just leave.
No. And then well, but then you're gonna follow up. I'm gonna follow up. You gotta just make sure you Okay. Okay. Anything's gotta be in writing, right? Because I mean,
we always say document, document, document.
Document, document, document. Yes. Absolutely. At the end of the day, just write any simple email, don't, don't copy hr. Don't be a weirdo, just write it to your boss. Hey, boss. Really enjoyed the conversation we had earlier today. Dah, dah, dah, dah. I'm looking forward to, uh, helping you with X, Y, and Z project, or, you know, increasing my value in these areas.
Um, and let's, uh, get something on the books in three months. Okay? Thank you very much. Great. You're done. It's in writing. They ain't no stopping you now.
Hmm?
You're ready to go.
Well, email's always gold. I love emails. Just make sure it's all, I mean, you also just
make sure it's professional please.
And if you don't know how to run it through, like co-pilot Chad, GBT.
Yeah. Just to make sure
Um, another thing I just thought of about the whole sending the professional email. Yeah. Or I guess even bigger than that, just taking no gracefully and pushing still. That adds credibility huh?
Think about your own kids, and you say no to one of your kids about something or whatever, it's Right. But my no means
no.
Yeah. But if they come back with an argument and a thought about what they're gonna try to do and why they're gonna do it differently and how they're gonna help like.
You've just increased your stock fair in said company. I mean, it's someone's showing that
you can be an independent thinker, right? You can think outside the box and show you be malleable.
You could be adaptable that you're not hardheaded. You're like, there's all the things Yeah.
That a boss likes about you, even in this hard conversation is still liking about you. Fair enough. You follow what I'm saying? Fair enough. I do. All right. Huh? Got it.
Again, I guess it's always looking on the other side of the coin.
Okay, but now what if there's actually no money?
What do you mean no money?
What, what? Like they're
actually, they can't give you a raise.
Oh. Like in your case, like your small business is trying to survive and Bethany's like, listen lady,
this guy
right? Come on. I need some negotiate other things. It doesn't have to be money. Like if, if they don't, if they really don't have money, they don't have money.
You're, you're living in a small business, there's five employees, whatever it is, negotiate, uh, work from home days, negotiate more vacation days, negotiate something that's of value to you. Yes, yes, absolutely. You know what, negotiate, training or certificates like the next level in your job.
So, so if you leave said company, you're ready to go to next company, bigger company. Right? So, so have them pay for, for something.
So you're negotiating for growth, whether it not just be monetarily Yes. But it could be growth in education, growth in
be creative, fair. Be creative. If they literally look at you and say, guys, I don't have any money in the budget cycle for another, a full year.
And you're like, oh my God, I don't wanna wait. Just yes. Get creative.
What happens when you still feel like you're underpaid or undervalued?
I don't know. I think,
it's time to pause, pivot, or piece out? Oh, shout out. So if you really still feel like that I wouldn't, I wouldn't go unprofessional.
I wouldn't go crazy, but I would, I'd test the market first. That is a statement in itself. Okay. About the company, about the culture of that company, about what you signed up for. Maybe their values aren't aligning with your values anymore. So that's a moment of clarity for you. Like that's that I call 'em God moments where God's whispering in your ear.
Yeah. Maybe you should. I mean, maybe that's a moment where you go, you know what, I'm gonna test the market and see what's out there for me. So it's not,
it's not necessarily bad. Fair. So like boiling it all down then, like you have this conversation, it doesn't really end with a No, it just really is starting a new strategy or a new outlook.
How are you, which I think I know, say that so sophisticated. I said the pause. Pivot or you're peace out.
You're, you're reating now. I mean, you are just crackling. You're doing so you're on fire woman.
But like if you haven't listened to it, you should go listen to it. Yeah. The previous podcast. Yes. But it's actually a brilliant way to think it's right, is that this isn't necessarily like asking for it isn't, shouldn't have all the anxiety.
No. Because you could just be at a turning point in a different way , than you knew, than you when going into it. Yes,
absolutely. So here's the issue. You know how we always talk about continuous improvement, right? That like in your life, in, in business and anything, that's all this is. Like you just, everybody makes it one step forward. Everybody makes it so static. I want to have the conversation be done and then you wanna wait a year and have the conversation. Don't do that. But I think that's also if you, this is a dynamic conversation. This is all about continuously.
Right? But you have to frame it
differently into the lens of it is a relationship. Yes. So it's an active conversation. Yes. I love that. It's not just a Oh my god, a question. I love the way you sum shit up all the time. I mean, we kind of got a little deep there. We did. Do you got any fun facts? đź“Ť Oh, I love fun.
Facts. We're fun. Facting it. Okay, let's go.
I got. Actually, I got fun facts Get ready, which I thought was good about, I'm like, how am I gonna fund genuine reaction time? How am I gonna, fun fact this shit. And I'll be honest, I would've made 'em up anyway, but I actually found fun facts on how to negotiate a raise.
Okay. Or I guess just about like random raises and stuff like that. I'm ready. I haven't
heard these yet. Let's go. I'm okay. Ready?
Alright, number one. So, you know, we already talked about how salary and Chris's like really didn't start till like the 20th century. Yeah. But the first actual recorded salary negotiation happened all the way back in 1869 right after Civil War, right?
Huh? A journalist named Jane Cunningham. Crowley, okay. Don't, don't quote me. I dunno. Crowley Crowley, I don't know, asked the New York Tribune to pay her the same as her male colleagues. And they did Good for her. Yes. They did, huh? The original salary queen. Go Jane.
Okay,
Number two. I also
love that it's like documented somewhere like 1869. Like someone was like,
we have nothing before then. Dig a little deeper. I have no idea.
What do you want me to say? Okay. Love it. Okay. Number two, almost 50% of people poll said they'd rather go to the dentist than try to negotiate a raise for themselves. 50% of people. I mean, fair. That is so embarrassing. That's actual stat. I like the, I like the dentist. You're insane.
Get, get on
people. Fair enough. The same way you go to the dentist and get your teeth cleaned twice a year.
I have an idea. When you go to the dentist, get your teeth cleaned, remind yourself that that's when you're supposed to go into your boss's office. Yay. Okay. Number three, people who negotiate their salary, this one's gonna blow your mind. It's just blow your mind. People who negotiate their salary, even once in their life, one time in their life, can earn up to a half a million to a million dollars more than someone who didn't Wow.
Like in the same lifetime.
That's significant.
It seems impossible, but you're a math major, so we're gonna do some math here. Okay. Two people make a hundred K.
Yep.
One person asks for a raise, gets 10%. Now he's making 110.
Yep.
The other person doesn't, he's stuck at a hundred. Correct.
Okay. Then for literally the next 30 years, each of them get the same raise every year. We'll just call it like 3% cost of living, right? Sure. So first year there's a $10,000 difference. Right? Then every subsequent year there's just 3% on top.
Just cola. Yes. Uhhuh. Okay. So over that 30 years, the guy who got that extra $10,000 right. Has 500,000 sense extra dollars. Makes sense. Because then you're
talking about compounding. Yes. That's exactly my point. Increase people aren't thinking about. Right.
So that doesn't even include vacation payout 401k match bonuses based on your salary.
Yeah. So that can easily add up to, in that case, 750,000, $800,000 over the course of your lifetime. Yes. Fair. Like
it's so at least ask once early on in what you're saying. But it's also what we tell people with investing. Like invest
Yes.
Early.
Invest early. Oh my God. So
ask, raise early.
I mean,
so remember the kid that asked me about the raise? Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm gonna send 'em over to you. Oh. I'll be like, Hey, if you get that raise. Invest. Invest over at OC World Coach. I think. I think I know which one. It's dot com. Okay. And finally, business coaches say the smartest thing you could do after you state the amount of money you're looking for. Like, I am looking for X right. Is to say nothing go silent.
Well, 'cause now the ball's in the other person's courts. Yeah.
Yeah.
This is psychology. Guys, listen up. The average person can't handle more than three seconds of silence. I personally can't handle more than 0.5 seconds of silence, but most people can't. I'm a terrible negotiator. What do you want me to say? Okay. Three seconds, but the first one to speak loses leverage all the time.
Huh? So you have to say, I was thinking more like $10,000.
Literally shut your mouth. Alright. Super hard to do, but it's very expensive if you speak first.
Interesting.
That's all I got. Fun facts out.
Oh, I like it. I mean, I especially love when you have math and you have psychology and off silences go. Let's make a Come on.
So I think at the end of the day, like you actually just need to know your self worth and you need to get over your fears. Yep. You need to just go for it and then you need to shut your mouth. So besides those things, is there anything else that we need to know as we wrap it up as like my hard hit list that you'll so likely like to give me at the end and tie with the bow
I got. Yeah. Well, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let me go through a few things. Call to action. Anything else I should do? I'll do a read, listen, watch and talk. How's that? Oh, my
quick list. That's a different one, right?
Okay. Show me. Here we go. Show the Monet.
Okay. So Read Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss. Okay. It's, uh, by far a gold standard of like how to negotiate, like negotiation 1 0 1. You will be like the Jedi master of how to negotiate.
Read it people. Okay. , Two, listen, , to a podcast called Negotiate Anything with Kwame Christian. There are all sorts of like short, easy episodes about everyday negotiating moments and how to use leverage. We talked about at leverage, use it to your advantage. 'cause people don't understand how they , have leverage or when they do and when they don't.
Super important. Um huh. Watch Casey Brown's Ted Talk. TED Talks. We love Ted Talks. Oh, I do love Ted Talks. The secret of getting paid what you're worth, it's only eight minutes long, so, Ooh. Super worth it. Quick. The secret of getting paid what it's worth. Chris Brown's TED Talk. Okay. Uh, and then last just, talk about this.
So find a mentor, career coach, uh, old person like me, whatever. Spend an hour roleplaying this conversation. Okay? Okay. Because like, think about it like this, 50% of the people would rather go to a dentist. 60% of the people didn't negotiate their raise. Nobody likes to talk about it.
So if. You can't even talk about it with a friend and role play it. How can you, the boss, how you ride? Bingo. So I told my kid, I'm like, come home. We're gonna talk about it. Yeah, you're gonna role play it with me. And if you can get good at roleplay it, this conversation gets easier because you start, the words start to come and you're like, okay, I don't use the word raise, I use compensation.
Or I use Hey, I wanna talk about my value and my growth. Right? And all of a sudden, those words get more comfortable to you. Yeah. So whatever that's, uh, if you wanna do some more heavy lifting and dig a little deeper. And then finally, remember these relevant details to seem sort of sophisticated people.
Number one, do your homework first. Research your market value on Glassdoor, LinkedIn, or PayScale. Know what your role is worth in your industry and region before you ever say a word. Uh, number two, build your case months in advance. Like we were saying, start today. Keep track of wins, results, ways you've gone above and beyond in your job description.
Document everything, projects finished, cost savings, new responsibilities. Keep it all in the spreadsheet, word doc, whatever, however you keep your notes. , Number three, pick the right moment. Timing is everything. We talked about that after the big win. During a review season, or right after you've taken on more responsibility, don't do it when the company's struggling or your boss is drowning.
Read the room. Know the pulse of your company like Amanda said. Number four, lead with the word growth, not with the word raise. Frame the conversation around your evolving role and contributions. Can we talk about my growth and impact this year? Sounds way better than I wanna raise. Please. And finally, if they say no, keep the conversation going.
Ask what it would take to earn it. Document the plan and follow up later. And if there's truly no room, negotiate other perks or start exploring what the market says you're worth. That's it.
All right, and there you have it. Dear listeners, the art of asking for a raise, it isn't greedy, awkward, or pushy.
It's strategic self-advocacy. And whether you're gearing up for your first big ask or realizing it's time to walk across the street to someone who actually might pay you what you're worth, the goal is still the same alignment, confidence, and a career that matches your contribution. đź“Ť So if we did our job today,
you're walking away with a clear plan, a bit more courage, and hopefully the realization that the most sophisticated thing you can do at work isn't working harder. It's asking for what you deserve. So polish the spreadsheet, pick your timing, and be ready to practice your pause. After you say the number, silence is golden.
If you like what you heard, hit subscribe. Drop us a review or send this episode to your coworker who's definitely underpaid, but too scared to ask. And remember, knowing your worth is only one step asking for it is where the magic happens. So until next time, stay curious, stay confident, and get compensated.
 
