Episode Transcript
[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome back to sort of Sophisticated, the podcast where a culture, curiosity and chaos collide. I'm your host, Pete, and sitting here, as always with me is my lovely, much more intelligent and charming co host, Amanda.
[00:00:20] Speaker B: I mean, that's very nice of you.
[00:00:21] Speaker A: I try to be nice at the beginning because I know towards the end, start off well.
[00:00:26] Speaker B: I'm just kidding.
You just get feisty. It's okay. It's okay. It's kind of like no one's mad about it.
[00:00:33] Speaker A: I don't know if anybody's mad. I think you're mad about it.
[00:00:35] Speaker B: No, no, no.
I've come to expect it.
[00:00:38] Speaker A: What are you drinking, Coffee? I'm drinking Topo Chico.
[00:00:41] Speaker B: Oh, look at you.
[00:00:42] Speaker A: You know what? You should drink Topo Chico more often. Ranch water, hard seltzer, signature line.
[00:00:47] Speaker B: It's very yummy.
[00:00:48] Speaker A: Let's go shout out to all of our advertisers who've been really kicking in the butts for us.
So here we are.
Okay, so this.
This week, I'm sitting there with my son Lucas. You know Lucas? Correct.
[00:01:02] Speaker B: And you're sitting where?
[00:01:03] Speaker A: I'm sitting in my living room, and we're trying to figure out what we're gonna watch. We've got the popcorn, we got the movie, we got the whole thing going on.
[00:01:09] Speaker B: Wow. You like pre game?
[00:01:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Cause I have a whole popcorn.
[00:01:11] Speaker B: But you don't even have the movie selected.
[00:01:14] Speaker A: No. Right. So.
So we end up selecting Ocean's 11. Did you see Ocean's 11?
[00:01:19] Speaker B: Oh, yes.
[00:01:19] Speaker A: Yeah. Brad Pitt, George Clooney.
[00:01:21] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a good one.
[00:01:21] Speaker A: Yeah. So I think it's a 25 year anniversary of it or something. I think so, yeah. Because I think it came out.
So I think that's why it was sort of higher on the list.
[00:01:29] Speaker B: Was it really?
[00:01:30] Speaker A: Because we don't look down the list.
[00:01:31] Speaker B: No, no, no.
[00:01:31] Speaker A: We just sort of look at what?
[00:01:33] Speaker B: It came out in 2001.
[00:01:34] Speaker A: It did.
[00:01:35] Speaker B: No.
[00:01:35] Speaker A: Yeah, 25 years ago.
[00:01:36] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. I feel so old.
[00:01:38] Speaker A: Embarrassing. Here we are.
[00:01:39] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:01:40] Speaker A: What were you, like, 10 years old?
[00:01:42] Speaker B: No, that's what's so, like, scary. Okay. Anyways, continue.
[00:01:46] Speaker A: So we start watching this whole thing, and I tell Luke, I'm like, dude, you know this is a remake, right? And he's like, what are you talking about? He's like, this is so. The movie's a remake. Ocean's Eleven with Brad Pitt and George Clooney is a total remake.
[00:01:58] Speaker B: Really?
[00:01:59] Speaker A: Wow. I'm doing this to you right now. Holy crap. Okay. This is exactly what happened this Is perfect. This is exactly what happened at home.
[00:02:05] Speaker B: I have your bridge. Generation gap. Yeah, totally.
[00:02:08] Speaker A: So I go and explain, like, Frank Sinatra did this, the whole real one
[00:02:11] Speaker B: in, like, Frank Sinatra.
[00:02:13] Speaker A: Yes, Frank Sinatra, 1961 does this whole thing. Right.
So we have to now watch that movie. So subsequently, the next day, we watch the original one. And of course, that's the Rat Pack.
[00:02:25] Speaker B: Okay, Right.
[00:02:25] Speaker A: So Frank Sinatra's a Rat Pack. Right.
[00:02:27] Speaker B: So is that where it came from?
[00:02:28] Speaker A: Exactly. I don't want to say from that. Right before that, so. But yes, you're getting there. So this is all Luke's idea. This was Luke's episode, Shout Out.
[00:02:35] Speaker B: Luke, good to go.
[00:02:36] Speaker A: So he's like, dude, totally do one on the Rat Pack. Because my generation knows two shits about who they are and what they were and the whole thing. And I was explaining, like, everything, of course, because I'm a dorky old dad or whatever. So anyway, this whole thing was born from that.
[00:02:52] Speaker B: I love it.
[00:02:52] Speaker A: And here we are. So our official title is Martinis and Mobsters. How the Rat Pack Defined the Era of Cool.
[00:03:00] Speaker B: Oh, all right, here we are.
[00:03:02] Speaker A: They were cool.
[00:03:03] Speaker B: Do you think the Rat Pack was, like, the inspiration for James Bond?
[00:03:09] Speaker A: Oh, shit. No, I don't think.
[00:03:10] Speaker B: No different. Well, because that's a great agency versus mobsters. But it was like.
[00:03:14] Speaker A: But no but sorry. Because the Rat Pack really wasn't mobsters, so I should be careful. Like, I'm. I'm having a little fun with that to sort of, like, hook the audience.
[00:03:21] Speaker B: Okay, okay.
[00:03:22] Speaker A: There is a tie in. Because Frank Sinatra was thought to, like, have a lot of connections with the mobsters.
[00:03:28] Speaker B: Like, in real life.
[00:03:29] Speaker A: Yes, in real life. And nothing was quite proven. Like, we. Like, I have a fun fact on it, but, like, no, he was.
[00:03:34] Speaker B: You know, me and conspiracies.
[00:03:35] Speaker A: No, he. Oh, he. Well, he was in them.
Oh, for sure. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:03:40] Speaker B: I'm so ready.
[00:03:40] Speaker A: I know.
[00:03:41] Speaker B: I'm so ready. Here we go. But first, how is this gonna make us more cultured? Because I feel like, I mean, we're learning about history, so I get it.
But is there something else? Is there something deeper?
[00:03:52] Speaker A: There's something way deeper on this one. Cause, so, first of all, I've noticed that. I like that we start the episodes this way. This is kind of cool, because I think when I have to think about why it makes us cultured, that's how I explain what, like, if people are like, oh, what are you doing this week on the podcast? So if someone were like, well, tell me about the Rat Pack, I'd be like, well, you know, da, da, da, da. And it always has to do with why they were cultured. Like, how is this gonna make us more cultured? How's this gonna make us more curious? So this is what I always use. Anyway, so I was ready for you.
[00:04:17] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:04:17] Speaker A: So I explained it to Luke while we were watching the show. The Rat Pack was the closest thing to what we would call royalty that we had in the United States of America. Cause we don't have royalty.
[00:04:26] Speaker B: Fair.
[00:04:26] Speaker A: Right. So I know that sounds weird, but, like, you know, England had kings. Well, Britain had, like, kings, sure.
[00:04:30] Speaker B: But I feel like Elvis is royalty, theoretically.
[00:04:33] Speaker A: Right. So that would be.
So I think the whole fact that they defined the. I don't even wanna say the generation. Cause that's not even. They defined what cool was. And you were only cool if you were sort of invited into the secret club.
[00:04:50] Speaker B: If you were sort of sophisticated.
[00:04:52] Speaker A: Right, Exactly. But the thing was, is, like, the club was for everybody. But, like, they made it feel like it was. It was, like, wild. Right? Cause, like, I mean, think about all this shit existed before. Like, it wasn't like they came up with any of this stuff themselves. They just put it all together in a way that defined culture and. And. And quote, unquote, sophistication. Right? So, yes, we're going to learn about history. But this was really about a moment in time where people really wanted to feel in, like. Like they were in. And that's what they did for us. And so here we are, literally, like. I don't know. What is this? 65 years, 75 years. I don't even know. Do you remember the Great Gatsby?
[00:05:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:29] Speaker A: Right? Similar. It's that style of sort of, like, what cool and what in means. And we're all still chasing that same. We're just chasing it differently. But we're still chasing it. Right?
[00:05:37] Speaker B: Fair.
[00:05:38] Speaker A: Makes sense.
[00:05:38] Speaker B: Okay. Kind of.
[00:05:39] Speaker A: Okay, I like that we're gonna be kind of cultured. I like that, kk.
[00:05:43] Speaker B: But so if we're still chasing it today, are we not learning anything about history? Or are we just, like, learning about how to be cool or what cool means or what cool was then, or.
[00:05:52] Speaker A: Oh, no, dude, we're totally gonna do. I'm giving you the history of the rapids.
[00:05:55] Speaker B: Okay? Oh, the Rat Pack. Okay.
[00:05:57] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:05:57] Speaker B: So we're not just about.
[00:05:58] Speaker A: No, this is total history of the Rat Pack. I'm just saying, like, think about them, right? Like, they were. They're smoking the cigarettes, wearing the tuxedo suits and then the swagger and, like, they were just. Always had a drink in their hand. It was awesome. And so you wanted to subscribe to that lifestyle. It made being an adult cool again. Like, it wasn't just for kids anymore. You can have fun, huh? That's all.
[00:06:17] Speaker B: Okay. So besides just learning how to be cool, what is our wow for this week?
[00:06:22] Speaker A: Wow. Okay. Our wow is insuserate.
[00:06:26] Speaker B: Insufferable.
[00:06:27] Speaker A: You incessorate me insufferable. I like that. No. Anything else?
[00:06:32] Speaker B: No. Like when you, like, resuscitate someone?
[00:06:35] Speaker A: Nope. Not even close.
[00:06:35] Speaker B: No.
[00:06:36] Speaker A: No, no, no.
[00:06:37] Speaker B: Anything to do with breathing?
[00:06:38] Speaker A: Yes.
In fact, you are correct. Here we are. Incessurate is a verb meaning to whisper. What? Or murmur something into one's ear quietly.
[00:06:50] Speaker B: Huh?
[00:06:50] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:06:51] Speaker B: Incessorate.
[00:06:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:52] Speaker B: So, like, when you know, like, you tell secrets.
[00:06:53] Speaker A: I tell Rushi's my favorite. I incessorate.
[00:06:56] Speaker B: It sounds wholly inappropriate.
[00:06:58] Speaker A: I know it is.
Well, we're gonna make it inappropriate. It comes from the Latin, insusarare. I don't know, maybe in meaning into and susurare, meaning to whisper in. To whisper? Yeah, to whisper or murmur quietly.
[00:07:14] Speaker B: All right, then we'll try not to incisorate the rest of this episode.
[00:07:17] Speaker A: We are going to incisorate this entire episode. Your job is to figure out how to get that in there.
[00:07:21] Speaker B: Ok. Oh, gosh. I can't even say the word. Here we are.
[00:07:23] Speaker A: Incus. Do it. Incessorate.
[00:07:25] Speaker B: Incessorate.
[00:07:26] Speaker A: Yes. You have any?
[00:07:27] Speaker B: Here we go. All right. Well, onto the Rat Pack, then. So how did it all begin?
[00:07:31] Speaker A: Okay, so it all begins a long time ago.
[00:07:36] Speaker B: Before 1931.
[00:07:38] Speaker A: No. Why? What was 19?
[00:07:39] Speaker B: You were just guessing right after Gatsby.
[00:07:41] Speaker A: No, that would be cool. No, it doesn't. No. No. So it actually goes back before Frank Sinatra. So I'm going a little bit further back.
[00:07:47] Speaker B: Well, that's why I picked 1931, because Frank Sinatra was, like, a little too far back.
[00:07:50] Speaker A: You're close.
[00:07:51] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:07:51] Speaker A: I mean, that was. That was solid guess. So. It starts in 1950. Exactly.
[00:07:55] Speaker B: Oh, that's a lot. Okay.
[00:07:57] Speaker A: Right here in west la.
[00:07:58] Speaker B: West la.
[00:07:59] Speaker A: West la. Right here? Yes. In a house in Holmby Hills between Bel Air and Beverly Hills? Yes.
[00:08:05] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:08:06] Speaker A: Humphrey Bogart, Lauren Bacall.
[00:08:08] Speaker B: Two people.
[00:08:09] Speaker A: Two people. Do you know?
Really? You don't know who the Rat Pack is? You don't know who Humphrey Bogart and Lauren McCall are? Okay, all right.
[00:08:16] Speaker B: For my time.
[00:08:17] Speaker A: So they were married.
[00:08:19] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:08:19] Speaker A: Humphrey Boger, Lauren Bacall, the two most famous Actors on earth. Okay. Casablanca.
[00:08:24] Speaker B: Okay, okay, okay, okay.
[00:08:25] Speaker A: Yes, I did know that one. To have and have not. Key Largo, like the hottest Hollywood couple ever. So the whole idea here is like their house became this, I don't know, like, Fortress of Solitude for, like, Superman. Right. It was like the place where all the famous actors would go after they would, you know, shoot their films or do whatever. As it was like a hideout where they could get away from the paparazzi and the media.
Yes. Okay, Right. And they could just sort of unwind and relax.
[00:08:53] Speaker B: Social club.
[00:08:54] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:08:54] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:08:55] Speaker A: A very sophisticated social club. I like where this is sophisticated or
[00:08:59] Speaker B: just like, of the elite.
[00:09:00] Speaker A: Well, okay.
[00:09:00] Speaker B: I mean, Hollywood elite.
[00:09:02] Speaker A: Does that count? I don't know.
[00:09:03] Speaker B: I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if they're all sophisticated.
[00:09:05] Speaker A: I think I'm incessor rating right now. Sorry, I shouldn't. I should talk more clearly.
[00:09:08] Speaker B: Oh, there you go.
[00:09:09] Speaker A: Sorry, my bad.
[00:09:10] Speaker B: Job. High five.
[00:09:10] Speaker A: Yeah, done. No, but, like, I mean, like, so you have to think back. So during this time in the 1950s, you were owned by Hollywood. So it's not like today, like, where actors have a lot more say. So back then, they pretty much followed you everywhere. Like, they decided what you would wear. Like your kind of haircut, probably checked your blood and made sure that it was clean. Like they were all in your shit. And so they all needed an outlet. And this was sort of Humphrey bogart. And Lauren McCall's house was like, the place to go. Got it. Nobody outside of Hollywood could get in unless you were a famous actor. And I mean, like, famous, like. Like Judy Garland famous.
[00:09:44] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:09:44] Speaker A: Like, that's who would hang out there. Does that make sense?
[00:09:46] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:09:46] Speaker A: Spencer Tracy. Famous people.
[00:09:47] Speaker B: The who's who of Hollywood.
[00:09:49] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:09:50] Speaker B: But is that the Rat Pack? Because, like, these people invite people to their house and now everyone who comes is part of the Rat Pack?
[00:09:56] Speaker A: No. So sorry.
[00:09:56] Speaker B: I feel like Rat Pack was like, mobster ish.
[00:09:59] Speaker A: Like, no. So Rat Pack is not mobsterish at all.
[00:10:02] Speaker B: Then why am I brain. Am I thinking, like, I'm going to put it together, like, Al Capone style?
[00:10:07] Speaker A: Way off? This is like just a bunch of degenerates fucking around.
[00:10:11] Speaker B: Really?
[00:10:11] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Okay, so Lauren McCall actually is the one who coined the phrase. So all these famous people are laying around, probably drunk, AF one night, and she just looks at it.
[00:10:20] Speaker B: Sounds like a Diddy party.
[00:10:21] Speaker A: Yes, kind of. Right. But like, more chill. Like there wasn't all that stuff going on. But yeah, yeah, yeah, that's exactly it. Right.
[00:10:26] Speaker B: How do you know she.
[00:10:27] Speaker A: I don't know. I just. I have to assume these guys are sophisticated and nice and good people. I have to. But maybe you're right. I don't know. Exactly. Anyway, my point being, she just sort of looks at him one night and goes, jesus, you guys look like a pack of rats.
[00:10:43] Speaker B: I don't know if that's a compliment or not.
[00:10:44] Speaker A: Right. And so it sort of stuck. And so then, literally, they were never called that. Like, that was it. That's just where it came from. Then Humphrey Bogart dies, 1957. Like, a few years later.
[00:10:53] Speaker B: Too much drugs, probably.
[00:10:54] Speaker A: No, I don't know. No, I don't know what he died of.
We should probably know that. But this isn't about him.
[00:10:58] Speaker B: You know what I mean? I digress.
[00:11:00] Speaker A: I think it was just cancer.
Cancer killed him. All right. Anyway. Yes, cancer killed him. Okay. So then that's when Frank Sinatra steps in and kind of kept the whole, we'll call it after hours vibe. Like.
[00:11:12] Speaker B: Oh, he was like, leader for.
Okay. So basically, Bogart starts this, like, dive bar thing that's in his house to kind of be secluded. A place for everyone to kind of, like, unwind.
[00:11:26] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:11:27] Speaker B: He dies, Sinatra comes in.
[00:11:29] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:11:29] Speaker B: And then it's like 2.0 rat pack.
[00:11:33] Speaker A: So. Yeah, but the first one wasn't really called the Rat Pack. Bogart never called himself the Rat Pack. Right. Like, so she just named it. It was only after Frank Sinatra. So do you remember?
Triple Crown.
[00:11:44] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:11:44] Speaker A: There was a guy. I don't remember his name. Hutton, I think, was his name. Don't quote me on it. He was the guy who was like, oh, like the Triple Crown. The Triple Crown. But we figured out, like, it was like, 1945 by the time he named the Triple Crown. And then they went back in history and were like, oh, all these are Triple Crown winners. But it really didn't exist. This is the exact same thing.
[00:11:58] Speaker B: Okay. It's like the pre Rat Pack establishment of how it came to be.
[00:12:03] Speaker A: Yes. And then Sinatra sort of grabs the idea. Loved the idea of the. Remembered the term because journalists and everybody was using Rat Pack. So he just grabbed. He's like, we're the Rat Pack.
[00:12:11] Speaker B: Got it.
[00:12:11] Speaker A: Then it goes backwards. And they gave it to Humphrey and Lauren Bacall. Does that make sense?
[00:12:15] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:12:15] Speaker A: Okay. So that's sort of like how that all got established.
[00:12:19] Speaker B: All right, well, then who's the pack?
[00:12:20] Speaker A: Who's the pack?
[00:12:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Obviously Frank Sinatra.
[00:12:23] Speaker A: I have an idea. Yes. Let's Unpack this right now.
[00:12:25] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh.
[00:12:26] Speaker A: Should we do that? Okay. No, not good enough.
[00:12:28] Speaker B: This guy.
[00:12:28] Speaker A: Why do you make faces at me?
[00:12:29] Speaker B: This guy.
[00:12:30] Speaker A: All right, here we go. All right. Five guys. Five guys.
[00:12:33] Speaker B: This is where the restaurant came from.
[00:12:34] Speaker A: It is, right? Okay, here we go. Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, Sammy Davis Jr. Joey Bishop and Peter Lawford.
[00:12:42] Speaker B: I know none of these people.
[00:12:44] Speaker A: You totally know these people.
[00:12:44] Speaker B: I don't think I do.
[00:12:45] Speaker A: You don't know. You don't know Frank Sinatra?
[00:12:48] Speaker B: Well, okay, except for Frank Sinatra.
[00:12:49] Speaker A: But I don't know Dean Martin.
[00:12:51] Speaker B: I don't think so. Okay, is he related to Steve Martin?
[00:12:53] Speaker A: He sings all your Christmas hits. Okay, Dean Martin was totally famous. All these people were famous. I mean, four of them were famous. Joey Bishop. Maybe not super famous at the time, but, like, all the rest were super famous. Okay, here, I'll go quick. I'll explain. Sort of one of these. Okay, so it all starts. Frank Sinatra, right? He's the leader. We're gonna call him the de facto leader. Good old Frankie. So he's already famous. Huge singing career. Because he was just, you know, old Blue Eyes, right? Like, everybody knows he already won the Oscar by that time for From Here to Eternity. Did you see From Here to Eternity?
[00:13:21] Speaker B: You already know the answer. I didn't know.
[00:13:22] Speaker A: Why don't you watch old movies? Like, watch movies that was really good. Like, anyway, my point of this whole thing is Frank Sinatra was already famous. Had nothing to prove anymore. He's just singing in Vegas now. So he's chilling, having fun. Okay, so then you have Dean Martin. He's a little bit different. Like, he's also already super famous, but because Dean Martin with Martin and Lewis. Like, Jerry Lewis, the comic duo. Oh, my God. Okay, you know Jerry Lewis, though, Like, from the telethons. And Jerry. Okay, I. I need. I need a new co host. Like, at some point, I just need a new co host. I mean, this is crazy. Okay. No, it's great. Oh, I love this. We're being sophisticated. This is awesome.
[00:13:53] Speaker B: Or I'm getting sophisticated.
[00:13:54] Speaker A: Might.
My point is, Dean Martin was already famous. He already had movies. He already had records. He already was a comedy act. He was super famous, but he didn't give two shits about the legacy anymore. He was literally just having fun. Frank Sinatra was a little more into still, like, being sophisticated and being awesome. Okay, so those are, like, the two uber famous guys. Okay, then you got the next guy, my favorite, Sammy Davis Jr. And he was not as famous as the other guys, but he was still kind of famous.
[00:14:18] Speaker B: So why was he cool?
[00:14:19] Speaker A: He was 3/4 famous. Well, he's my favorite because he was on Broadway.
[00:14:23] Speaker B: Oh, he's my favorite, too.
[00:14:24] Speaker A: Oh. Oh, Just like that.
[00:14:25] Speaker B: Just like that.
[00:14:25] Speaker A: Oh, okay. Well, there you go. Yes.
[00:14:27] Speaker B: Easily pleaseable.
[00:14:28] Speaker A: That's where he grew up. But you have to remember, for people who don't know, Sammy Davis Jr. Was black. So black in the 1950s was still segregated. That was still a problem. So Vegas was still segregated. So he didn't have access to all the same places as, like, Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra.
[00:14:42] Speaker B: Sure. But the Rat Pack took him in.
[00:14:43] Speaker A: They took him in. He needed protection.
They offered protection. It was sort of awesome because they were able to perform together. And then Sammy Davis Jr. Had more access. And he was amazing just in general as far as talent goes to begin with. The fourth guy, Joey Bishop, do you know. Okay, so Joey Bishop, not uber famous like the other guys do you know, like, the positions in baseball? Like.
[00:15:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:04] Speaker A: Have you ever heard of, like, the term utility player?
[00:15:06] Speaker B: Yeah, you can play anything.
[00:15:07] Speaker A: Okay, so this is Joey Bishop.
[00:15:08] Speaker B: This was Army Knife.
[00:15:09] Speaker A: Yes. Okay, perfect. That was Joey Bishop. He was like. He was a. He was like a comedian. He had already worked the clubs. He was.
He was, like, spent half his life writing. All right. He was, like, in the writers rooms. He was doing comic skits and stuff like that. So he knew how to hold the group together. I'm gonna say when, like, they were getting out of control because he had, like, the through line. He was the one that held it all together with his writing. Oh, so if they got too unhinged, he was like, yeah, let's bring this back. Does that make sense? Well, I think he was the adult in the room.
[00:15:39] Speaker B: So wait, what, up until this moment is the Rat Pack like, a group of entertainers who came together to create shticks?
[00:15:49] Speaker A: Or I don't want to say shticks. Like, they were entertainers, so they came together. Let's start with. They were all capable singers, and so they just. It was a show. It was a show in Vegas. Oh, like, it was just a show.
[00:16:04] Speaker B: Okay. No clue. Yeah, no clue.
[00:16:06] Speaker A: Okay, I'm sorry. Maybe I should have led with that whole thing. Yes. That was the whole concept. Because back at the time as Vegas is blowing up, right? They have acts. Like, Elvis comes into Vegas. This was an act in Vegas. And they were all like. And it wasn't like. The cool thing about it is it wasn't like today, where, like, you know, some industry executive in the music industry is going to be like, oh, hey, let's make a boy band. And then, like, you audition, and then they pick you and pick you and pick you, and then all of a sudden, you're a boy band and you're in, what?
[00:16:30] Speaker B: It was a very organic thing together.
[00:16:32] Speaker A: They just happened to be right place, right time, all together, and it just sort of gelled. You with me so far?
[00:16:39] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:16:39] Speaker A: Sorry, I didn't make that clear. Yes. Perfect. Peter Lawford, number five. And they needed Peter Lawford because he was hot. Let's cut the shit.
[00:16:45] Speaker B: He's the face. Okay?
[00:16:46] Speaker A: He was. Yes. Not only that, he was already. Remember when I said royalty?
[00:16:50] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:16:51] Speaker A: Okay. He was royalty. Let's be honest. The closest thing we had to royalty was not the Rat Pack, it was the Kennedys.
[00:16:58] Speaker B: Oh.
[00:16:58] Speaker A: And he was married to a Kennedy.
[00:17:00] Speaker B: So by proxy.
[00:17:01] Speaker A: By proxy, Number one, he was married to the Kennedys. Two, he was hot. So done and done. They needed to have him in.
[00:17:08] Speaker B: Fascinating. So these five random dudes.
[00:17:10] Speaker A: Somehow random famous, but go ahead.
[00:17:12] Speaker B: Okay, fine. But, like, these five dudes are in the same place, same time in Vegas, join forces to create a new entertainment group.
[00:17:20] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:17:21] Speaker B: They are not traditional mobsters that you think of that are, you know, nothing. Running around with.
[00:17:25] Speaker A: Nothing to do with mobsters. Correct.
[00:17:27] Speaker B: So they all just met because they were all residents.
[00:17:30] Speaker A: I don't know if it was residents, but they were all at the Sands Hotel performing solo acts.
[00:17:35] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:17:36] Speaker A: And it just sort of organically starts to grow from there. Right.
[00:17:40] Speaker B: So it started from California, near the Hollywood Hills, somehow meet in Vegas. And Frank Sinatra basically takes that concept.
[00:17:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:47] Speaker B: And.
[00:17:47] Speaker A: Well, because Frank Sinatra, I'm sure, spent time in Lauren Bacall and Humphrey Bogart's house and was like, oh, my God.
[00:17:52] Speaker B: Right. So somehow in Vegas, it becomes the same kind of dive bar.
[00:17:55] Speaker A: So here's the story. So this is sort of like the theory that everybody puts together, because nobody knows. Exactly. But here we are. Okay, so Frank Sinatra's on stage, literally, one Saturday night in the Sands Hotel, crooning. He's crooning. He's doing his thing, Right. I mean, tuxedo, smoking the cig, got the Jack on the table and everything, you know? And randomly out of nowhere, Dean Martin literally walks on his stage in the middle of his set.
[00:18:21] Speaker B: That's ballsy.
[00:18:21] Speaker A: Yep. He's got his drink in his hand, just sort of rambles out there and sort of looks at him and goes, oh, I didn't realize you were actually working. And as soon as he said that, the audience went fucking bonkers because they thought it was Real, like they thought it was like an act and it was all scary.
[00:18:39] Speaker B: No, he just probably was drunk.
[00:18:40] Speaker A: So they start singing together and they're just hanging out and they're just chatting a little bit and they're singing. And Frank still. Frank didn't lose the show. Like, he kept it going. But Dean knew just how to play off of him. Like sort of improv.
[00:18:52] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:52] Speaker A: Yes. Just start talking shit and there you go. So from there, like, literally the next night, Dean Martin is now performing and Frank Sinatra decides, I'm gonna pay his ass back. So he walks out on his stage. They do the same thing. Crowd goes nuts. Sammy Davis Jr. Is like, in the audience. Joey Bishop's in the audience. Maybe they're watching each other's shows. They get up on stage with them and the four of them start fucking around on stage together. But, like, that's so weird, right? But Dean Martin's still, like holding the show together because it's his show. You get the concept. So literally night after night, they just started ad libbing this.
[00:19:28] Speaker B: Razzing each other.
[00:19:29] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:19:30] Speaker B: Huh.
[00:19:30] Speaker A: That's how the concept starts. And so that goes on for like a while, right? I don't know, a few months. Don't quote me on it, or whatever. And then they sort of realized they got something going on and they decide like, let's have a name for this. Let's lock this shit in. Okay. So they decide to call it the Summit. I guess that's like what they brand their. Their name when they're going to all get on stage together. Right. Because they were still doing shit separately. And fun fact, the concept of the summit came from, I guess during the Cold War. Like, that was the Cold War time. The United States and Soviet Union.
[00:19:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:56] Speaker A: They were meeting in Paris at what was called the Summit. Right. To like make agreements on when the minds came together. Yes. So it was like sort of a half joke thing, whatever. But they were like, oh, look at us, we're all badasses. So now they're basically, you know, running Vegas as, quote, unquote, the Summit.
[00:20:13] Speaker B: Okay, yeah, that's real random.
[00:20:15] Speaker A: I thought so.
[00:20:16] Speaker B: So started off super chaotic and somehow formed into something that is called the Summit.
[00:20:22] Speaker A: Yeah, Masomano sort of chaos. Joey Bishop had the through line. So he was the guy that, like I said before, like, he's the guy who made it sort of tied together. Tied together. So it wasn't completely unhinged. But yeah, I mean, it was literally like they would get up on stage, they'd have a plan enough and they just sort of rolled the bar cart out on stage, started drinking, and the audience sort of got to play along with them. And they thought it was the coolest thing in the world. Like 10 out of 10 audiences were going batshit crazy. High quality entertainment. High quality entertainment at its best. Okay.
[00:20:51] Speaker B: I mean, really just feel like they took spaghetti and threw it on the wall and saw like a lot of stuck.
[00:20:55] Speaker A: Yes, that's exactly how it started, I think it was.
[00:20:56] Speaker B: And it just kind of worked.
[00:20:57] Speaker A: It totally did.
[00:20:58] Speaker B: Okay, so did it get any bigger than that or was it just always a haphazard, kind of have a run through line that kind of keeps it kind of on track?
[00:21:07] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, the Sands were the best part. Right. It does get a little bit bigger, don't get me wrong. Right. Because it goes on to Hollywood and so on. And so I'll talk about that in a second. But like, for the most part, like.
[00:21:15] Speaker B: Sorry, let me clarify my question. In Vegas does become its own show or is it still just the five of them and they all get up?
[00:21:22] Speaker A: No, sorry. So once they called it the Summit, it became a show. Oh, but here's the deal.
[00:21:26] Speaker B: So you could specifically go to a show. Do they stop the individual side of it?
[00:21:31] Speaker A: They probably did for a while. I didn't. Don't quote me on it. Yeah. My instincts is they might have still had their own shows here and there, but for the most part, no. This was a thing.
[00:21:37] Speaker B: Not important.
[00:21:38] Speaker A: Yeah. But it was like, weird because the people weren't really just buying tickets for the show like that. People were buying tickets to see what would happen. Right. Like they would have done.
[00:21:47] Speaker B: They feel like it was an improv.
[00:21:48] Speaker A: Yeah. They were in. They were sort of invited in. Right. So it was more like. Yeah, they just wanted to see what was gonna happen that night because no night was the same. So it was still unpredictable enough because there was no real pressure around it. It was still pretty fun stuff. And then after that, sort of ballooned. Right. And got huge. They realized they sort of could do whatever they wanted and get away with it. Right.
[00:22:10] Speaker B: Okay. All right, all right. So they ballooned and they got huge, but they had Sammy. How did, like Vegas be okay with that? I guess during that time because it was like very segregated.
[00:22:21] Speaker A: Right, right, right, right, absolutely. So I'm going to. Let me. Let me incisorate here just to make sure that we bring it down a notch. Have we used incisorate enough yet?
[00:22:29] Speaker B: Uadm.
[00:22:30] Speaker A: All right, I'm done. Sorry. Note to self, Pete. Overused incisorate already Amanda's getting upset. Okay. Yeah. So this is where we get a little wonky. This is where they literally take over the world. Because at that time, when Sammy would perform on his own, he was allowed to do so, but then they literally would walk him off stage and walk him right off their property. He couldn't stick around. He couldn't get their food. He couldn't do anything. Right, exactly. So when they got ahold of him and branded this summit idea, that was sort of when, I mean, literally, Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra literally said, if he's not in the room, we're not in the room. And so the sands had to cave.
And as a result, subsequently, every other casino caved. And when that happened, I think that's the moment when the Rat Pack was like, oh, my God. Like, I mean, think about it. They, like, changed segregation, right?
[00:23:28] Speaker B: The history of Vegas identity. I mean, literally.
[00:23:31] Speaker A: I mean, maybe I'm taking that a little far. I mean, I know there was a lot more, but, like, if you think about that, you could see how these five men were like, oh, my God, we're awesome.
[00:23:39] Speaker B: We changed history.
[00:23:39] Speaker A: Right? Right. For sure. Okay, so now, of course, after that, it's Hollywood's turn, because now they have to get involved. So 1961, the whole reason why we started this episode in the first place. Or picked it. Thank you, Luke.
They film Ocean's Eleven.
[00:23:53] Speaker B: The Rat Pack.
[00:23:54] Speaker A: Yes. So now they go from literally the whole Rat Pack. Did you not know this?
[00:23:58] Speaker B: That's so cool.
[00:23:59] Speaker A: This is. This is crazy to me. Okay. I thought you. You knew some of these pieces.
[00:24:02] Speaker B: I mean, I thought it was like, this fine tether of line because Ocean 11, Frank Sinatra was in it.
[00:24:07] Speaker A: Frank Snoddest, all five of them were in it. Right? So now you think, like, wait, Hollywood's gonna go crazy with them. And they did. Hollywood made some more movies with them. I think there was another one called Sergeants 3. And then they made a few other famous ones where, like, four of them were in it but not five of them, but whatever. But, like, for the most part, Ocean's Eleven is the ultimate Rat Pack. You know, Hollywood movie best all time. And what's so cool about the movie is it was basically like. I mean, it wasn't a documentary, but it was a. Basically a documentary. Let's cut the shit. It's sort of. It's sort of them just, like, around pretending to be actors.
[00:24:38] Speaker B: I mean, it's funny.
[00:24:39] Speaker A: It's a good movie. It's got. It's got, like, an awesome. Like, plot line and everything.
[00:24:43] Speaker B: Because it's just what we know as Ocean11.
[00:24:46] Speaker A: No, it's a totally different version of it. But it's hilarious because they're just like. You could tell they're fucking around.
[00:24:50] Speaker B: How funny.
[00:24:50] Speaker A: Like filming the movie, which I thought was incredible. So anyway, so the change.
[00:24:54] Speaker B: Vegas. The change. Hollywood.
[00:24:55] Speaker A: Yep, totally. Totally.
[00:24:57] Speaker B: And make a couple movies.
[00:24:59] Speaker A: They do.
[00:25:00] Speaker B: And then what?
[00:25:02] Speaker A: And then that's sort of it. And then.
Then the shit hits the fan.
[00:25:05] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. What?
[00:25:07] Speaker A: As fast as it started, it burned out. Star burns bright.
[00:25:10] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, that's most everything, right, Right.
[00:25:12] Speaker A: In Hollywood burns out. Yeah. No, because, like, so once it was all, like, an act and they had to, like, perform.
That's it, it's over.
[00:25:19] Speaker B: Was as natural.
[00:25:20] Speaker A: Not nearly. And so, like, now it's not fun for them. They get pissed. Expectations have to be managed. It's a whole thing. Like, really, like, I can't roll the bar card on stage anymore. Like, you're making me do what now? And we have to do how many shows a night? And so it's like, fuck this, we don't want to do it. So they pivot. They decide, like, we're going to go big because they're men and they have huge egos and they just basically rebranded Vegas. And then they took over Hollywood.
[00:25:43] Speaker B: So.
[00:25:43] Speaker A: Stay with me.
They decide if we have to be legit, then we might as well do something serious about it.
[00:25:50] Speaker B: Uh. Oh, like what?
[00:25:52] Speaker A: They went big. Okay.
[00:25:53] Speaker B: Like what?
[00:25:54] Speaker A: Political.
[00:25:55] Speaker B: Oh, well, you stepped in it.
[00:25:57] Speaker A: Right? Here we are. Um, do you remember Peter Lawford?
[00:26:00] Speaker B: Is this, like, how. Hold on, I digress. Is this how, like, Hollywood has decided that they are the political mouthpieces?
[00:26:07] Speaker A: And is this how. I have no idea if this is how, but yes, probably.
[00:26:10] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:26:10] Speaker A: I don't know. This is one of the major. Right, yeah, absolutely.
[00:26:12] Speaker B: Okay, sorry. Digress. Go ahead.
[00:26:13] Speaker A: So Peter Lawford, he's married to JFK's sister. So it's like, what, 1961, 1962.
So they go all in on JFK. The Rat Pack is backing JFK. So you would think it's gonna be awesome and this is all gonna work.
Except here's the rub.
I don't even know why I'm bringing this up. Every idea I have about a movie I wanna talk about. You don't remember any of them? So there's this movie called Black Sheep. It was with Chris Farley and David Spade, and long story short, Chris Farley plays the. I think I did.
[00:26:38] Speaker B: I know that one.
[00:26:39] Speaker A: Sophie. Dopey brother whose brother is trying to run for governor of Washington.
[00:26:43] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:26:44] Speaker A: And. And Chris Farley basically sort of is this goof that just like, can't help himself but, like, fucks everything up. And his brother doesn't want anything to do with him. Okay, so same thing here.
[00:26:54] Speaker B: So the kid JFK wanted nothing to do with him.
[00:26:56] Speaker A: So specifically, Robert Kennedy was like, what is happening? Like, I get these guys are famous, I get everything about it, but we can't let them into politics. They're unhinged. We can't do this with them.
[00:27:06] Speaker B: But weren't the Kennedys a part of Hollywood too?
[00:27:11] Speaker A: Not in the same way. I mean, they were associated with. But like, Kennedys are politics. These guys are in Hollywood, not just Hollywood. These guys are just entertainers. And so the Kennedys are like, you're a wild card. We don't know what you're about to go do and say. So you can't go and do and say anything on our behalf. We don't trust you.
[00:27:28] Speaker B: Image, right?
[00:27:29] Speaker A: So again, Bobby Kennedy stood up and sort of told the whole Kennedy family, enough's enough. Like, no way. And so as soon as that happens, I mean, essentially, let's be honest, Frank Sinatra is the one who got slapped on the wrist, like, in public. I mean, he's now been banished. Bobby Kennedy, we're not associated with them, right? So now in public, Frank Sinatra looks like an ass. So Peter Lawford has to take a side because he's married to JFK's sister. So not complicated what side he takes. So he's immediately out. He's like, we're done and done. And then Dean Martin sort of decides, like, he's out. Because if you remember when I said at the beginning, Dean Martin didn't care about legacy. He was sort of having fun. He was already famous and done.
[00:28:09] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:28:10] Speaker A: He wasn't looking for anything like Frank Sinatra was. So Dean Martin sort of just stopped coming around as much. Like, had his wife at home, was hanging out with them more often. He was never the one who was most interested anyway, so he just sort of buzzes off a little bit. Joey Bishop realizes at that time, like, his career's taking off in writing, and they never super respected the fact that he was the one that kept them all together. Right. Whispered in their ear on stage and helped them out like he. He was their guy and they didn't really love him. So he was like, fuck that, I'm out. So it left sort of Frank Sinatra And Sammy Davis Jr. And, I mean, maybe they played together for a Little bit here and there, but for the most part, they went back and just sort of solo grinded it out and kind of kept going. And just like that, it kind of.
Yeah, fizzled. Evaporated. Done and done. And I mean, if you think about it, it had to. It couldn't last. It was impossible. Because that's what made it so cool, was the whole concept of, like, they didn't invent any of this shit. Right. Like I told you at the beginning, Martinis were already a thing. Smoking cigarettes were a thing. Tuxedos were a thing. All they did was brand cool. And so they turned all of that into something America wanted. Because America was allowed to, like, be in the secret room, like Hamilton. Yeah, Right. Like in the room where it happened. Right, that's exactly. That's what their brand was, to be in the room where it happened. And so when everything sort of got too branded and had to be, you know, a specific way, and they had to act and so on. Right. And fit the grind, and then they wanted to get into politics, everything fucking blew up. It had to blow up because it couldn't be cool for too long. The arc was going to happen no matter what. It was impossible to not happen. They would have had to have said no every time to everybody that was in their face, always to try to keep it going as long as they could. Does that make sense? Yeah, because the whole idea was about coolness.
[00:29:54] Speaker B: Got it.
[00:29:54] Speaker A: And that's sort of the good part, but it's also the sad part, because, like I said, it was built not to last. And here we are, 65 some odd years later, trying to, like, figure out
[00:30:03] Speaker B: who the Rat Pack was.
[00:30:04] Speaker A: Well, I mean, yeah, for you, but also, like, how to recreate it. I mean, that's what people are trying to do. They always want to recreate this thing. What's next? What are we doing? How can we be cool? How can we be in. Right. It's the same concept.
[00:30:13] Speaker B: I mean, I feel like we should just, like, let that have the moment. Right?
[00:30:16] Speaker A: No, I get it.
[00:30:17] Speaker B: Place, right, time, right people.
[00:30:18] Speaker A: I'm completely with you. My point is, I'm trying to tie it back into, like, why it matters 65 years later. I would argue that's why we're always looking for that. How are we allowed to be in the same room as something while it's going on and feel connected, even though we're not allowed to be there? And that's sort of not like now. We just did a podcast now.
[00:30:34] Speaker B: Seriously sort of sophisticated. I'm Just kidding.
[00:30:37] Speaker A: No, that was. That was a solid plug. But let me get, like, weird and psychological on you. All we do is we just do the same thing.
[00:30:43] Speaker B: We just hide Instagram.
[00:30:45] Speaker A: We're doing it by ourself now.
[00:30:46] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:30:46] Speaker A: We're literally looking by ourselves and swiping, which is bullshit, because when it's in community, it makes it a lot more fun. So, anyway, I digress, because I'm an old Gen Xer.
[00:30:54] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I really do hope, though, the pendulum swings right? Because we are so isolated because of screens and AI and, like, it's just, we need to go back to community. And I think that's what the Rat Pack did, is that they brought people together.
[00:31:09] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:31:10] Speaker B: Right. To laugh and have a good time and have an experience, make you feel
[00:31:14] Speaker A: like being an adult was allowed to be fun again. Because in the 1950s, being an adult was not. You weren't allowed to be fun. You grew up.
[00:31:21] Speaker B: That's how you should name your new business, your new restaurant.
[00:31:23] Speaker A: Being an adult is fun.
[00:31:23] Speaker B: No. What, The Rat Pack.
[00:31:25] Speaker A: The Rat Pack. All right, let's see what we can do.
[00:31:27] Speaker B: Yeah, totally TM'd anyways.
[00:31:28] Speaker A: TM the hell out of it.
[00:31:30] Speaker B: What fun facts you got for me?
[00:31:32] Speaker A: Fun facts. Okay, I am ready with fun facts. But I have a quick fun fact about fun facts.
[00:31:37] Speaker B: Oh.
[00:31:37] Speaker A: Am I allowed to do a fun fact about fun facts? And will that count as one of my fun facts?
[00:31:41] Speaker B: No.
[00:31:41] Speaker A: I don't even know. Okay. For some reason, this was really hard to find fun facts.
[00:31:46] Speaker B: Like, really nothing. Like, ooh, that was interesting.
[00:31:49] Speaker A: I mean, Amanda, it's me. I found them. Don't get me wrong. I'm just saying, for the first time, I had to dig deep. Yeah. I had to go into deep research
[00:31:57] Speaker B: mode to find fun facts.
[00:31:58] Speaker A: Yes. It was insane. So just bear with me.
[00:32:01] Speaker B: All right?
[00:32:01] Speaker A: But here we are.
[00:32:01] Speaker B: Here we go.
[00:32:02] Speaker A: Okay. Number one. So Frank Sinatra didn't just headline at the Sands, remember? That's like, the.
Like, as a performer. Right? He also owned a stake. He was a part owner, which I call bullshit on. Why? Because if you think about it, like, how do you do. If he's the performer, but then he makes demands about talent or, like, what he expects, then he's the owner that's going to vote for, like, how the performers get paid. Yes, I know. I think it's bullshit. He can get anything.
[00:32:26] Speaker B: Nope. You need to have owners that have all spectrums of interest and what they're good at.
[00:32:31] Speaker A: Okay. Talent. I think it's bullshit. Well, I think no One could check him. And by the way, was he 51% owner?
[00:32:36] Speaker B: Probably not. No, it's fine.
[00:32:37] Speaker A: He left. He left the Sands anyway. And went to Caesar Palace.
[00:32:40] Speaker B: What?
[00:32:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
Do you know Caesar's palace isn't really where Caesar lived?
[00:32:45] Speaker B: Well, yeah, duh.
[00:32:46] Speaker A: Well, I'm just making sure. Cause you didn't know anything about the Rat Pack.
Wow, that was from a movie. Zach Galifianakis.
[00:32:53] Speaker B: What?
[00:32:53] Speaker A: No. The Hangover. Nevermind.
[00:32:55] Speaker B: Okay, checkmate.
[00:32:58] Speaker A: Okay, number two. Here we are. Dean Martin's whole drunk Persona. Because Dean Martin always pretended to be drunk, but you probably don't want to drink.
[00:33:05] Speaker B: Was he not drunk when he stumbled onto Frank Sinatra stage?
[00:33:07] Speaker A: He was not. It was fake mostly. He used to fill the little whiskey glass with iced tea.
[00:33:12] Speaker B: Huh.
[00:33:13] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:33:13] Speaker B: Okay, again, that was a good one.
[00:33:14] Speaker A: All for showmanship here. Like, this was the whole vibe, right?
[00:33:17] Speaker B: I just want to act drunk and say whatever I want.
[00:33:20] Speaker A: That's what I do.
[00:33:21] Speaker B: I mean, I just thought you were actually drunk. Oh, I'm just kidding.
[00:33:25] Speaker A: Hold on. I have a super fun fact.
[00:33:26] Speaker B: Just kidding. Okay.
[00:33:27] Speaker A: What? I have a super fun fact. Okay. What wasn't fake? Even though the drinking was fake. What wasn't fake? He would deliberately skip, like when they would do rehearsals, like when they got. When it turned into an act. He would deliberately skip em, like, on purpose because he got pissed that the show would come off way too polished.
[00:33:42] Speaker B: Oh, my God.
[00:33:43] Speaker A: So Joey Bishop.
[00:33:44] Speaker B: I relate to him.
[00:33:45] Speaker A: Okay. He's your guy.
[00:33:46] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:33:46] Speaker A: There you go. I love it. Okay, Shoot from the hip.
[00:33:49] Speaker B: Let's go.
[00:33:49] Speaker A: Boom. Who cares what it's gonna be like?
[00:33:52] Speaker B: Roll the dice.
[00:33:53] Speaker A: Right.
[00:33:53] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:33:54] Speaker A: Number three, Sammy Davis Jr. Lost his left eye. I don't know. What, you lose your left eye?
[00:33:59] Speaker B: Like, popped out?
[00:33:59] Speaker A: Yeah, like, broke his left. I don't know what the word is. Captured in a car. Yes. In a car accident in 1954.
Three weeks later, he's performing again on stage.
[00:34:09] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:34:09] Speaker A: Yes. That's how committed he was. This whole thing with like a brand new glass eye so like they could like see five different ways.
[00:34:15] Speaker B: Oh.
[00:34:16] Speaker A: Which was really hilarious because, I mean, what, the Rat Pack was probably five years later, but he was still at the time, like, learning depth perception. I mean, this is 1950. Whatever. Like, it's not like today. So he was still figuring out depth perception with the glass eye while he was on stage, which made it even better because it was all fucked up and it was real. He like, really didn't know his depth perception, but people thought he was drunk or fucking around. Right. So Same thing as Dean Martin faking it. Sammy Davis Jr. Wasn't faking it. He, like, had a glass eye and was just trying to fucking do the best he could up on stage. So there you go, number four. Okay. During performances, Joey Bishop would make sure he had index cards, like, full of jokes in his pocket in case the room started dying or they were losing the room, because, remember, they were left a little bit unhinged. Yeah. So he would walk around, like I said earlier, and whisper in their ears what to say.
Oh, my God, that was perfect. How did I not do that one?
Good for you. Okay. I did it, like, five times and did it shitty. You just nailed it. How did I not put that together? Anyway, but I think that's awesome because he would give them ammo to sort of like. And they didn't use it right away. They just knew sort of how to, like, get going again.
[00:35:21] Speaker B: Yeah, right.
[00:35:22] Speaker A: So that's why. That's why when it all ended for him, he was, like, pissed. He's like, guys, I kept you fucking going. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, was this show, right? I was right. Well, that's what happens. Egos. Here we are, number five, and I'm not even making this one up. You're. This is the one. This is the one you want to know about. This was mobsters.
[00:35:35] Speaker B: Ready?
[00:35:36] Speaker A: Here we are. Okay. Frank Sinatra actually had a standing FBI file during his years with the Rat Pack. Yes, he did. Totally active file. The FBI claims Sinatra was under, quote, federal surveillance because of alleged mob associations, specifically with a guy named Sam Giancana. You could look this up. This is totally legit. So he would, like, travel with him, like, internationally, go to mob events. They watch it.
[00:36:01] Speaker B: Was Sam a mobster?
[00:36:02] Speaker A: Sam was the mobster. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like, he had ties, but, I mean, he performed for the mob, like, all the time, so that's why they had the FBI file him. But they never found anything specific to, like, tie him to, which, like. So he unofficially was a mobster, like you said at the beginning. But so, like, it's legit shit. Like, I'm not making it up. Which does make total sense when it comes to, like, the whole Bobby Kennedy thing. And why you want to have nothing to do with him? Because if they knew. Because they probably had information, right, the Kennedys, that he was, you know, gallivanting around with Sam Giancana.
[00:36:37] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:36:38] Speaker A: What are the Kennedys supposed to do? Right? So anyway, that's the mobster's link to the whole thing.
[00:36:42] Speaker B: All Right. That was a good one.
[00:36:43] Speaker A: All right. And finally, Peter Lawford, our man Peter Lawford, the hot guy, he was the one who like, paid the highest personal price of the ending of the Rat Pack because after he got ousted by Frank Sinatra, then he was ostracized.
[00:36:55] Speaker B: Was he ousted or did he choose that?
[00:36:58] Speaker A: Sorry, you are correct. So he chose that, but then subsequently she left him. So the Kennedy said, get out of here.
[00:37:06] Speaker B: Bad choice.
[00:37:06] Speaker A: Yep. So he got. He got double barreled here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:37:09] Speaker B: It's no one else's fault but his own.
[00:37:11] Speaker A: He was respons. The Kennedys looked at him as responsible for letting the Rat Pack in in the first place. So, like, it sucked. So he sucked. Yeah, he kind of, I mean, totally, totally spiraled. His career never recovered.
Like, marriage gone.
Tried to get back in with Frank Sinatra's good graces over the years, but just completely lost his identity. That's it.
[00:37:28] Speaker B: So sad.
[00:37:29] Speaker A: Yeah, that's all I got. Fun facts out. Sorry to end on a bad note.
[00:37:32] Speaker B: Wow. I was just like thinking how this is such a fun episode and then we just like, sorry, Peter Lawford.
[00:37:38] Speaker A: But I mean, he was hot, so I mean, he probably, you know, use that to his advantage for many years.
[00:37:42] Speaker B: Well, overall, great job because I feel like I'm super cultured now.
[00:37:46] Speaker A: You know something about the Rat Pack.
[00:37:47] Speaker B: Yeah. And like Vegas and.
[00:37:49] Speaker A: Right. Are you gonna watch the original Ocean's Eleven?
[00:37:51] Speaker B: Yeah, please do. I'll do it. I'll do it. Well, speaking of that, what else should I do as my call to action if I want to learn more about the Rat Pack?
[00:37:58] Speaker A: Yes. Right. Let's do this, because.
[00:38:00] Speaker B: Check, check. Watch the OG movie. Got it.
[00:38:03] Speaker A: Let's go to the Sands. Well, I mean, the Sands isn't like a thing anymore, but we could go to where. We could go to where the Sands was. Because they didn't, like, blow it up. They did. Yeah. Yeah. Because now it's the Venetian. So let's. So don't go to the Sands. Let's go to the Venetian, people, and we could just like, check out the. Just check out the vibe.
[00:38:19] Speaker B: No, it's so different. That doesn't count.
Doesn't count.
[00:38:22] Speaker A: Okay, if we went to a place where like, World War II veterans were, wouldn't you call that hollowed ground 911 where they attacked? If we went to Pearl harbor, hollow ground.
[00:38:33] Speaker B: We've talked about hollow Gettysburg, but have been, like, preserved.
[00:38:36] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:38:37] Speaker B: The Sands was blown up and crumbled, and now it's like a Venetian, which has nothing to do with the sand.
[00:38:42] Speaker A: Okay, then don't go to the Venetian. I don't care.
[00:38:44] Speaker B: Not OG at all. Great. Next one.
[00:38:46] Speaker A: Screw you. Okay, Read a book called Rat Pack Confidential by Sean Levy.
[00:38:52] Speaker B: Who's that?
[00:38:53] Speaker A: Shawn Levy. Eugene Levy's son? No.
[00:38:56] Speaker B: Oh, not Dan Levy. I know Dan Levy.
[00:38:58] Speaker A: I just made all that up. I have no idea. Shawn Levy's an author dude who authored this book. I don't know.
[00:39:02] Speaker B: But, like, what's his tie to the Rat Pack?
[00:39:04] Speaker A: There's no tie.
[00:39:05] Speaker B: He just wrote a book about the Rat Pack.
[00:39:07] Speaker A: He wrote a book about everything that has anything to do with the Rat Pack. So if you want to learn something about the Rat Pack, read the damn book.
[00:39:12] Speaker B: Read the book.
[00:39:13] Speaker A: Got it. This is tough. Okay, I have an idea. Just watch Ocean's Eleven and we're done. That's it. Okay. Listen to some Frank Sinatra music tonight while you guys are, like, making dinner. And then watch Ocean's Eleven.
[00:39:22] Speaker B: That's because it's awesome.
[00:39:23] Speaker A: That's all we're doing. That's my call to action. We're done. If you don't want to do any of this shit, then just remember these few facts to feel sort of sophisticated.
Number one, the Rat Pack was an informal group of entertainers active mainly from about 1959 to 1962, starring Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, Sammy Davis Jr. Peter Lawford, and Joey Bishop, who all performed together at the Sands Hotel in Las Vegas and starred in the iconic film Ocean's Eleven.
They weren't an official act at first. They were individual stars whose careers collided at the exact, exact right moment.
Number two, what made them powerful wasn't music or comedy. It was control of the room. That's what we were talking about. The real product was just access. The feeling that you were there, that you were chosen.
Number three, the Rat Pack worked because it wasn't planned. They kept crashing each other's shows at the Sands. The chaos felt authentic, unscripted, slightly unhinged, a little dangerous maybe, which made it totally irresistible.
Number four, they quietly forced Vegas to integrate. I think that was the coolest part of this whole thing. By using leverage instead of speeches, it was just basically one line. If one of us can't stay, none of us can stay. And that changed Vegas's policy on segregation forever. Without ever framing anything as activism or anything crazy, they just sort of quietly handled the whole thing. And finally, the Rat Pack fell apart the moment it tried to become official and permanent, which makes a ton of sense. Cultural power works. Political power, not so much. Once the room had to be, quote, managed. And the invitations then got complicated. The magic, of course, evaporated. C' est la vie. Here we are.
[00:41:03] Speaker B: And there you have it, dear listeners. A deep dive into the Rat Pack. The moment America decided that Kool didn't need permission. It just needed the right people in the right room. And if we did our job right, today, you're walking away a little more sophisticated, a little more aware of how culture actually moves. And not through rules or speeches or anything like that, but through access, confidence, and who controls the night. And as always, if you like this episode, hit. Subscribe, leave a review, and share it with that one friend who still thinks that the Rat Pack was just some guys in suits drinking martinis and singing old songs.
[00:41:36] Speaker A: Um, I'm sharing it with you.
[00:41:38] Speaker B: You should.
[00:41:38] Speaker A: Who didn't even know that I did it right.
So share it with someone who has no idea who the Rat Pack is, people.
[00:41:44] Speaker B: So until next time, stay curious, stay connected, and remember, being sophisticated isn't about copying the look. It's about understanding how is the Reality Room works and knowing when the invite matters most out.
